plummer terrier thread locked

[Guest 1 man and hiz dog]

Nothing wrong with a piss in the wind-as long as the wind is behind you. Its when you piss INTO the wind-that sucks cos you get covered and smell of wee.

dont piss in the wind then

[tonkatoy 0]

i've just got myself a plummer pup ! it seems that there is a lot of politics within the plummer fraternity that i was unaware of could any of you knowledgeable boys educate me please if you could spare the time to explain. maybe by pm as not to upset anyone else ?

or maybe i should take it back (joke)

[Guest 1 man and hiz dog]

i've just got myself a plummer pup ! it seems that there is a lot of politics within the plummer fraternity that i was unaware of could any of you knowledgeable boys educate me please if you could spare the time to explain. maybe by pm as not to upset anyone else ?

or maybe i should take it back (joke)

it looks as if you have a few plummers mate

[mikey 2]

whilst exercising my dogs in parks, fields etc i never see any plummer terriers all i see is borders,lakelands,patterdales,russellsthey dont look like theyve seen much work either arent the majority of these breeds just houshold pets??seems to me that there seems to be statiscly there are more plummers working than any other breed,people just seem to jump on the bandwagon,I HATE PLUMMERS!!! I BET ALOT OF TERRIERMEN have got shot of plenty of the top so called working breeds aswell whilst trying to find good workers!

[fireman 10,860]

Ain't going to go on here but the border,lakeland,russell and even the fox terrier are all kc'd and there's a good few of these still gettig soil on the backs week in,week out.Didn't used to like the thought of the kc bit but like i said due to the inter redg bitching a few lads are being excluded from getting a traceable history for their dog,but still the kc bit won't happen anyway as the kc have told them to make a approach in one united way and they can't even do that with the redg'ing of the dogs .

[Hedge_hunter27 18]

whilst exercising my dogs in parks, fields etc i never see any plummer terriers all i see is borders,lakelands,patterdales,russellsthey dont look like theyve seen much work either arent the majority of these breeds just houshold pets??seems to me that there seems to be statiscly there are more plummers working than any other breed,people just seem to jump on the bandwagon,I HATE PLUMMERS!!! I BET ALOT OF TERRIERMEN have got shot of plenty of the top so called working breeds aswell whilst trying to find good workers!

Well said .

 

FFS people, get a grip :realmad: . I am so sick of hearing negative comments about Plummers by most people that have never owned one or seen what they can do, Plummers are excellent versatile and intelligent terriers just like most other breeds of terrier . Yes there are some people out to make money but there is in all breeds :oops: and I see far more other breeds up for sale compared to Plummers .

 

P.S. No I don't think you missed anything CS, I can't see anything wrong with the other post either .

Edited December 13, 2009 by Hedge_hunter27

[Cleanspade 3,322]

Here is my words of wisdom , on the subject

Lads and lasses that have had the breed before and worked them have in 90% of cases moved on to other breeds for different reasons, and the new owners seem to be in it to breed and show the dogs.

The fancy web sites, fancy breed clubs and shows do nothing to advance the working of the breed, yes they get the dog noticed and talked about but is it needed?

the breed should be noticed because it works hard

the pat and lakey hasnt a fancy breed club and doesnt get the negative comments that the plummer is bound to attract.

 

 

now here's the thing. the plummer is no different to other terriers. apart from the fact it was bred as a terrier to hunt rats it has the same makeup as many russell types. like the other breeds mentioned it is mainly owned by pet / show folk. and lets be honest the patt lakie and the russell are mainly owned by pet show minded people. having said that. the patts have a strong following of work minded owners as have the lakie and the russell. ( could someone remind me how many clubs organizations the jack russell has? not including the KC registered one

 

as far as fancy clubs go the plummer is left in the shade by the much loved russell/lakie and border. that are all KC reg breeds all ready.

 

the patterdale is the only breed that is popular and not registered. allthough if the truth be told it is from the same stock as the lakie

and is just a form of lakie. to me the patt lakie and fell terrier are all fell terriers.

 

the majoriti of fell terriers as a whole are pets and mincing show dogs. FACT.

 

plummers are not and never was earthdog bred. so why do folk rip in to them for not doing a job they where never bred to do. ... how long would i last on this forum if i jumped on to every thread taking the piss out of the other working breeds?

 

if i disliked a breed. or type i would not even open the thread. i wouldnt spend my time trawling the site and then jump on to every topic just to cause truoble

 

the only thing i will say is the plummer does not fit in to the bracket (earthdog) so there is that problem. if not in this section where else do you post. what about a section for alternative terrier work... a full section on ratting in general would in my opinion be a very interesting and busy section. and the option to post in earthdogs is still there for plummers working to ground to post in here

 

thanks for taking the time to read my rants. fair moderation was my original reason for this post

 

[AMADORE 5]

the plummer im fed up of seenig this dog in the country mans weekly diging rats and markink rabbits why as this dog never made a good earth dog and never will in my eyes,simply becouse its line is shite and the dog is lacking in capability and isnt realy a diging dog.i have owned one my self the friendship was short and sweet and it wasnt what i would call a terrier,shallow scared and didnt like the punisment.i read a lot of plummers books when i was younger,because they was the only books avalible but the breed is shite and not worth a carrot i have yet to see a good single handed dog two both quarry never in my life time

 

Well the dog you speak of is "infinity bill" aka Bilbo bred from wyremead alfie and wyremead nancy ..my own line tho i cant claim to have bred this dog.

 

You say you the line is shite ...now my names Glenn Welsby i bred the parents you say the lines shite and you had a plummer ...so enlighten us by answering these.

 

1 ...the line is shite ..in what respects? and how do you know the line is shite ?

2 do you know me?

3 the plummer you had and dumped ..where from and breeding.?

 

Best reply fast as this is about to be locked id say.

[stormyboy 1,352]

As has been said-the Plummer terrier is just that-A f*****g TERRIER! Although it is said to have been created as a rat dog,it was created using some of the best blood available. As many of these dogs-Russells,fells etc, used, were from top lines of earth dogs,as much as in any other good line of working terrier.

The plummer is A TERRIER,with the same instincts as any other working terrier-huge prey drive, exceptional nose,courage and intelligence. Some better than others-same as any other type.

Yes there are some that dont work them-same as any other breed.

As for money-how much is a decent working whippet these days? more than a well bred plummer by a long shot!

Lurcher pups from the top coursing lines? 3,4,500 quid a go! I dont see the coursing lads getting slagged off.

Get off the bandwagon lads, and start thinking for yourselves. If you have limited or no experience of them you cant give an opinion can you?

KC reg is never going to happen,by the way.

[charliehunter100 22]

f*****g hell still causing agruements even when he has passed away! brian did alot more for terriers than most of the know it alls on here and think about it lads if he wanted earth dogs he would never have used beagle blood would he?? if you like them, work them if you dont like them leave them alone. as for kc registering it shouldnt happen they only f**k dogs up look at the english bull, british bull dogs etc top breeds reduced to cripples by the kc even worse take a look at this for real terriermen it will make you sick to see lakies dressed up like these bags of shite!! My link

[AMADORE 5]

After speaking face to face with Ronnie Irvin (kc chairman) about the breeds future for an hour or two I can tell the doubters that kc WILL happen..eventulay. They (the kc) are excited about registering a British breed instead of so many new overseas breeds.

Irvine has said the breed is superb and has ticked all the boxes ..but the polotics that go with the breed well thats another story..but we endevour.

As for Kc ruining any breed then thats a little short sighted, and old school. Esepcily now after this years cock up with the BBC and crufts.

 

Id like to see the breed recognised, this will bring more breeders and more choice..thats the only reason for me an expanding genepool.

 

The alternative to Kc is medlers ..bringing in useless outside blood..as we have seen again recently..

 

As for arguments..someones hiding behind a cumputer and slagging of the breed and a line then lets play !

 

Price wise ..mine are at the time males £250 females £275, docked and chiped with the safe knowledge of a pedigree of over 10 generations with pics to proove it, noit to bad really in the working terrier world.

[Toka 10]

I'll add my bit as Bilbo's owner...yes I am new to the breed but not to 'hunting' or dog ownership. I like others on here dont like the political nature of the breed and will strive to try to get some untiy of some kind, even if its only to get people from other groups talking and not seeing each other as 'the enemy'

 

I have spoken to a lot of people about the Plummer and Amadore/Glenn is one who does talk a lot of sense, deep seated knowledge of the breed and breeding genetics. He will admit his dogs faults and uses this info to try to get the next generation 'better' developed[in whatever way is needed], after all it aint an exact science and anyone who says different probably doesn't know what they are on about. He will help advise anyone and some may not like his advice, but it is always given in the hopes to develop the breed..its up to the owners how they decide to take the information.

 

Bilbo is only 12 months....so, unless I want to risk spoiling him, then I'm not going to enter him to fox at this stage. A lot on here may say that is wrong but I would rather not risk spoiling him. I have tried to bring him on and the articles are to help wit ha bit of positive publicity for the breed and was meant to give an idea of stages of development [but CMW are just putting in the articles as they see fit so that parts not working at the moment]. So you wont get posts of foxing or anything extreme at this stage...sorry, in a year or two i hope you will, but that probably wont be good enough to silence some critics.

 

The KC thing, having spoken to them myself recently I can also add that they would jump at the chance to accept another UK breed as they have said almost all the recent ones have been foreign. If we can pull together then yes it will definately come! I also agree with Fireman, it may stop some of the problems bought about by the divided politics. The KC have never spoilt a good dog...thats the breeders and clubs that have done that, the KC left it to them to sort their breeds out, and have sufferred from it. We are going into it knowing this, and am sure when it gets KC recognition that some will breed 'for pets/shows', but if we stick together and pups go to working homes then that would hope to minimise that.

I have been to a few shows and yes I love the craic there and meeting other likeminded Plummer owners [and other breeds owners]. Got to say the majority of owners I have met at these show have all worked their dogs...can the other breeds dogs lads say the same....if the response after the South Lakes Fell and Moorland show was anything to go by on here then many thought that thoes dogs there were just for show!!?? - again too many people with too much time perhaps and not enough knowledge.

 

As for breeding for money...i think there are more 'messers' [as you seem to call them] in the other breeds if this forum and others like it seem to show. Almost always a thread about someone wanting to breed this or that at whatever age etc...and not very often a Plummer. If the working Plummer owenrs stick together and do things with the correct information then theres no reason why those selling for money will soon be put out of business. Very soon you may need a certificate to breed your dogs, even if you are just breeding one litter for friends [not sure how that would be policed but can only see it doing good for the breed], DNA recording will be in as well as a load of other ideas that are gaining in strength and may be in by the middle of the year.

 

I got a Plummer as i love to 'hunt', watch it doing its job, over ground, through scrub. its more than taking him to a hole in the ground and putting him in, waiting and then digging to him - i'm not knocing anyone if thats what floats their boat but it isnt the 'only' reason i got Bilbo. I have no doubt that I will be the one responsible if he doesnt work out, not him!

 

I wont advocate breeding for bucks... i have mentioned my concerns to people who i thought may have been doing it and got banned for my troubles. [the politics of the PT again lol]

 

Like many have said, try to speak from experience...and if the breed isnt for you then just ignore the Plummer posts...then everyone will be happy.

 

I do hope the mods on here will allow a thread to continue unless it is becoming 'personal' or just a forum for the keyboard warriors to spell out the new abusive words they have just learnt!!!

 

rant over........

 

p.s. 2010 Calendars available....[can be used as dart boards if you want!!!]

Edited December 14, 2009 by Toka

[AMADORE 5]

[fireman 10,860]

Sorry toka but if you think THAT if the working lads stick together then those breeding for cash will soon be out of business(breeding for cash or breeding and calling it progresion for the breed and not your own use is a very thin line imo) then your wrong especialy if they get the kc bit,the price WILL rise for pups and whats all this you will need certificates to breed and dna bit.If i want a litter from my plummer i will and how on earth can you also agree with me with dogs not being able to get papers then come out with b*ll*cks and restrictions like that and what other ideas gaining strentgh?.Seems they maybe to suit a few and it also seems that the layman will again bear the brunt of yet more silly business about getting paperwork,maybe the way things are now ain't so bad if that what your saying is the way forward. :sick: :sick: :sick:

[Guest fence_hopper]

you bunch of plumber bitches the handbags are out.