Strong Stuff 2,171 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Many people have thought "It will never happen to me because........." and then it happened.. ...the RSPCA called and they lost their good name and animals forever!! An uniformed RSPCA inspector arrives. They may knock at the door or you will see them looking into sheds, stables and buildings. They say that they have had a report about your animals and would like to check them. · Have they any rights to be on your property? ................................ NO!! · Do they have any special legal powers? ......................................... NO!! · Can they demand entry to your dwelling to look at your animals? ... NO!! · Can they demand that you answer questions? ................................ NO!! What should you do?? Be polite, but very firm and refuse them entry. Tell them to leave. If they refuse you are entitled to use reasonable force to eject them, as you would any other common trespasser. If a policeman is present, ask him to leave unless he has a warrant, or is going to arrest you. Do not volunteer any information. Keep your mouth shut, Refuse to answer any questions. Do not even give your name. They may caution you and tell you that you are not under arrest, using the standard police wording. They may do their best to ignore you and talk over you, trying to goad you into giving answers to their allegations. The uniform, the caution, and the general demeanour are meant to intimidate you. You may feel that you are being helpful to let them in and have a look round and you may feel that you have nothing to hide but do not let yourself be lulled into a false sense of security. Many innocent animal keepers have lost their animals in this way. If you allow them in you are opening yourself up to problems which could lead to you losing your animals even if you are a good and conscientious keeper. THE RSPCA DO NOT HAVE ANY SPECIAL POWERS WHATSOEVER. Get names, numbers, and rank of any person present, write them down. Cancel going shopping next day, the RSPCA has a habit of returning when you are not there. People have returned to find all their animals gone and receipts nailed to a post or door. If possible move your animals to neighbours and friends you can trust. What to do when they have left. Don't sit down and think that is the end of it. Your battle has only just started.. Get photographs of all your stock, land and premises. Get your vet out to look at all of your animals and get him to write a report. Act immediately on any recommendations he has. The written report is essential. Get specialist legal advice. Below are two phone numbers. We know of solicitors, barristers, and specialist vets and land experts who are accepted by the courts as expert witnesses. For any help : 0844 700 66 90 Should your number be automatically withheld prefix the above number wth 1470 Hopefully none of the above has happened to you, and we hope it never will, but please be prepared just in case. Do not treat the RSPCA lightly. They are an immensely wealthy and incredibly powerful organisation who openly admit to breaching people's civil and legal rights. One of the best posts I've seen on here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlefish 586 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 go and get licences for the dogs before they have an excuse to tell you 2 hope the c**ts dont act like the f*****g cops dont think u need a license 4 a working dog???.not sure though. Conor.k is from Belfast. In Northern Ireland ALL dogs are required to be licensed with the local council at the cost of £5 per year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,220 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Like most situations you can make it as easy or as difficult as you like. If the lad has nothing to hide keep it simple and invite them in it will be all over in 5 minutes. If the lad has something to hide dont invite them in and get it sorted before they return.......but they WILL keep returning until they have seen the dog/s. For the sake of a curtain twitching neighbor why make it more complicated than it needs to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skellyb 8 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Like most situations you can make it as easy or as difficult as you like. If the lad has nothing to hide keep it simple and invite them in it will be all over in 5 minutes. If the lad has something to hide dont invite them in and get it sorted before they return.......but they WILL keep returning until they have seen the dog/s. For the sake of a curtain twitching neighbor why make it more complicated than it needs to be. Its not a matter of whether you have something to hide or not. They are a CHARITY with no rights whatsoever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strong Stuff 2,171 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Like most situations you can make it as easy or as difficult as you like. If the lad has nothing to hide keep it simple and invite them in it will be all over in 5 minutes. If the lad has something to hide dont invite them in and get it sorted before they return.......but they WILL keep returning until they have seen the dog/s. For the sake of a curtain twitching neighbor why make it more complicated than it needs to be. Its not a matter of whether you have something to hide or not. They are a CHARITY with no rights whatsoever. EXACTLY Just my opinion, but by even entering into conversation with them you'll be giving them a recognition they don't have in law. Absolutely nothing to hide here, and nor do I believe do most of the people on here, all I ever try to do is point out to people that the rspc* have no legal right of entry, they do not hold any special powers and can be turned away as you would any one else who knocked on your door and demanded to see your animals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,220 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) Like most situations you can make it as easy or as difficult as you like. If the lad has nothing to hide keep it simple and invite them in it will be all over in 5 minutes. If the lad has something to hide dont invite them in and get it sorted before they return.......but they WILL keep returning until they have seen the dog/s. For the sake of a curtain twitching neighbor why make it more complicated than it needs to be. Its not a matter of whether you have something to hide or not. They are a CHARITY with no rights whatsoever. EXACTLY Just my opinion, but by even entering into conversation with them you'll be giving them a recognition they don't have in law. Absolutely nothing to hide here, and nor do I believe do most of the people on here, all I ever try to do is point out to people that the rspc* have no legal right of entry, they do not hold any special powers and can be turned away as you would any one else who knocked on your door and demanded to see your animals. I understand where you lads are coming from....but what i prefer to point out to folk....is that although they have no powers legal or otherwise....they DO have massive sway when it comes to police/courtrooms etc..... Many folk have lost dogs due to the " expertise " of the rspca in judging dogs under the dda....these " experts " are appointed by courts !..... The police can and will knock your door,they may even knock it down if your really unlucky....all on the say so of the rspca..... If you think they will just slip away if you ignore them they wont as they HAVE to follow up on reports.....its up to the individual how they play it.....but i always liken it to these idiots you see who once arrested start shouting and screaming and trying to fight off police like its going to stop them getting arrested ....its easiest to just go along with it then phone your brief ! Never underestimate the rspca,they may only be a charity organisation....but they have the backing of the biggest most well funded firm in the country......if you have nothing to hide get them in and out of your life as quickly and easily as possible.....but thats only my opinion like. Edited December 7, 2009 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skellyb 8 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Basic legal advice for pet owners. You get a knock at the door; you open it. It’s the R.S.P.C.A. The “officer†may or may not be in uniform but, crucially, the police are not in attendance. What should you do? Do not panic and do not let the uniform or the attitude intimidate you. There is a good chance that you will be cautioned using the words “You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not now mention something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidenceâ€. All this means is that the R.S.P.C.A. officer can now give evidence in court as to what you say. At this time the R.S.P.C.A. have no powers to arrest you, all they can do is report you for summons. We recommend that you ask “Am I under arrest?†Note their response. It is very important that you do not allow them entry into your premises. They have no rights to be on your property. They have no special legal powers. They cannot demand entry to look at your animals. They cannot demand that you answer questions. You may feel that you are being helpful to let them in and have a look round and you may feel that you have nothing to hide but do not let yourself be lulled into a false sense of security. Many innocent animal keepers have lost their animals in this way. If you allow them in you are opening yourself up to problems which could lead to you losing your animals even if you are a good and conscientious keeper. Be firm, but polite, and do not let them into your house, or other premises. Say “I have been advised not to answer any questions put by, or in the presence of, R.S.P.C.A. officials without a solicitor present. If you wish to question me I must insist that you arrange, and pay for, the police duty solicitor to be presentâ€. Ask them to leave saying “Unless you have lawful authorisation to enter my premises I want you to leave nowâ€. If they refuse to leave you are entitled to use reasonable force to eject them, as you would any other common trespasser. Do not think that this is the end of the matter – they will probably be back, perhaps with the police. Telephone one of the emergency helpline numbers – we will do our best to put you in touch with people who can help. We can also advise on how you should now proceed. Our basic advice would be that you need to photograph you animals and your enclosures, invite a trusted friend to look over your stock and conditions or, preferably, get someone whose testimony would carry more weight to look over your animals/pets. It would certainly be a good idea to have a specialist vet check and write you a report. We can put you in touch with expert witnesses and veterinarians and we can also seek legal advice on your behalf. What do you do if the police attend your premises with the R.S.P.C.A.? Ask “Do you have a search warrant, or other lawful authority, to enter my premises? Insist on a yes or no answer. If the answer is no they have no right to demand access don’t let them in and proceed as you would if the R.S.P.C.A. attend on their own. Many people feel intimidated when faced with “mob-handed†visits but the law is on your side. No matter what the R.S.P.C.A. may say to you, do not be tempted to let them in without proper authority. No legal seizure of your animals can take place unless entry to your premises has taken place with proper authority. If in any doubt, or you simply want some back-up, call the either of the helpline numbers or get someone to call on your behalf. If they do have a search warrant ask “May I see and read the search warrant?†Ensure that you read the warrant before they try to enter unless they state it is urgent. It is very important that you don’t to anything to obstruct the police officer(s). Check to see who is authorised to enter by the warrant. Only allow the persons authorised in the warrant onto your property and insist that any others leave. Ask for a witness to be allowed in. Get a friend to come over as soon as possible. Call the Emergency Helpline 0844 700 66 90 as soon as you are able and we will try to locate an expert witness in your area to attend. We can also get legal advice for you. The sooner we know you have a problem the sooner we can start acting on your behalf. Once you animals have been seized it can be quite difficult to get them back and we would always try to prevent seizures being carried out. Ensure that you record the time that any search is initiated and also the time at which it is finished. Record the details of anyone who enters and insist that you see ID cards for anyone in plain clothes. Remember that anyone not specifically named on the warrant can be told to leave. If they do not leave they are guilty of trespass. Don’t be bullied, be firm but polite at all times. If you feel the situation is getting out of hand, or you want advice, call us. With reference to your property (whether it be your animals or any documentation), only the police have the authority to remove items. The R.S.P.C.A. (or any other charity) have absolutely no authority to remove your property (and this includes your animals) without your consent. If the police want to take things away seek further advice from us immediately. Insist that you are given a full receipt that lists everything in detail (e.g. 75 sheets of paper, 2 notebooks, etc.) do not accept receipts for, for example, “a quantity of correspondence†make sure it is listed in full. Should your animals be removed by the police you are entitled to inspect them wherever they may have been placed and you are entitled to an independent veterinary inspection, which the R.S.P.C.A. are obliged to pay for. If you are arrested insist that you speak only to the police and do not answer questions with the R.S.P.C.A. present. Insist that you wish to speak to the duty solicitor and do not make a written statement until you have spoken to the duty solicitor. The police may have some other authority to enter your premises which means they can go in without a search warrant. They can, for example, enter to arrest you for various offences without your consent. If they use this authority it does not enable anyone else to enter so you can insist that all other persons leave your premises, unless they can give a lawful authority for their being present. If you are unfortunate enough to be the subject of a raid you may well find yourself overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people that end up on your doorstep. With police officers, R.S.P.C.A. personnel and members of other charities brought in as consultants or handlers, last and not least film crews, you may well be facing a dozen or more people. Thus intimidated, even though you know your rights, you could find yourself pressured into allowing admittance to your house or other premises. Most keepers are law abiding citizens who have been accustomed to cooperating with authority figures and this is what makes you vulnerable. Perfectly healthy-looking animals have also been removed “for further examinationâ€, never to be returned. Do not be persuaded to sign away your animals, for examination off your premises, or for any other purpose – you will probably not have them returned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
golly 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 you can refuse entry to them right up until they turn up with the plod and a search warrant atb gol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skellyb 8 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 you can refuse entry to them right up until they turn up with the plod and a search warrant atb gol Check to see who is authorised to enter by the warrant. Only allow the persons authorised in the warrant onto your property and insist that any others leave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
golly 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 you can refuse entry to them right up until they turn up with the plod and a search warrant atb gol Check to see who is authorised to enter by the warrant. Only allow the persons authorised in the warrant onto your property and insist that any others leave. cheers skellyb gol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 1 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 hi all thank you for your responses, he turned up at 5pm today in a unmarked landrover, just said he needed to see the dogs and he be on his way, i asked him who complained and he said he didint know, i said you want to tell them to stop wasting your and my time coz theres nothing wrong with my dogs or kennels, he had a look said great no problem here, and went to leave, i asked if i will have nemore bother again he said no everything is fine here and left. but will take the advice bout them coming back so will be padlocking them from this night onwards. atb buddy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ian 1 36 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi all, ive had card off the rspca asking for me to phone them so the missis did and they phoned back saying they want to see my dogs because a neighbour has complained that my dogs are locked in a shed all the time (4 grand kennels) never let out or walked ( every day in the morning before work and evey nite after work)and in a scruffy condition, i prob spend more on looking after my dogs than they spend on they children. i have a 7/16 bull grey bitch pup 8 months old and a bull grey x minshaw dog 2year old. having trouble downloading pics will try again to show kennels and dogs. but want to know do i tell him to f**k off or leave him in. have nothing to hide but worried bout the breeding of them, dont want to loose them. ATB Buddy the rspca just want to take peoples dogs off of them for nothing and then sell them for a profit legal dog pedlers thats all they are Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strong Stuff 2,171 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 the rspca just want to take peoples dogs off of them for nothing and then sell them for a profit legal dog pedlers thats all they are They kill them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Catcher 1 639 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi all, ive had card off the rspca asking for me to phone them so the missis did and they phoned back saying they want to see my dogs because a neighbour has complained that my dogs are locked in a shed all the time (4 grand kennels) never let out or walked ( every day in the morning before work and evey nite after work)and in a scruffy condition, i prob spend more on looking after my dogs than they spend on they children. i have a 7/16 bull grey bitch pup 8 months old and a bull grey x minshaw dog 2year old. having trouble downloading pics will try again to show kennels and dogs. but want to know do i tell him to f**k off or leave him in. have nothing to hide but worried bout the breeding of them, dont want to loose them. ATB Buddy Hi buddy.No way would i let the rspca go any where near my dog,s without a court order.Like your self got nothing to hide.But I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION. Any time they stick there nose in they F--k it up.They have only one agenda.And we all know what that is.Tell them to take a hike. They cant see the dog,s feck all they can do.atb. Catcher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Swampy 147 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi all, ive had card off the rspca asking for me to phone them so the missis did and they phoned back saying they want to see my dogs because a neighbour has complained that my dogs are locked in a shed all the time (4 grand kennels) never let out or walked ( every day in the morning before work and evey nite after work)and in a scruffy condition, i prob spend more on looking after my dogs than they spend on they children. i have a 7/16 bull grey bitch pup 8 months old and a bull grey x minshaw dog 2year old. having trouble downloading pics will try again to show kennels and dogs. but want to know do i tell him to f**k off or leave him in. have nothing to hide but worried bout the breeding of them, dont want to loose them. ATB Buddy Hi buddy.No way would i let the rspca go any where near my dog,s without a court order.Like your self got nothing to hide.But I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION. Any time they stick there nose in they F--k it up.They have only one agenda.And we all know what that is.Tell them to take a hike. They cant see the dog,s feck all they can do.atb. Catcher Awite Catch you old git! No grey area with you is there? But you're right.............Damn that hurts when I say that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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