.243 rifle

[coldweld 65]

So you have not actually drove a fox bullet at 4000 fps or shot a red/sika stag ?

 

Now before you go mad i am just asking .

 

I don't think a fox worries if a 55grn pill hits it with a potential 4000 fps mv or a 100 grn doing 2800 fps mv the end result is the same.

 

What i am saying is that the .243 is a very good vermin round and kills lots of deer .You reasons for it to be better than the .260/.308 as an allround deer fox round do not stack up, as you have not enough practical experience of different rounds or shooting large deer .

[Mr_Logic 5]

No, a fox couldn't give a shit, it's still dead. But in terms of foxing at night, with limited opportunity to dial in for drop and windage, a round that is flat as a pancake to nigh on 300 yards is a hell of a lot more practical than a 100gr deer bullet.

 

You say (and I am paraphrasing) - "because you lack experience with shooting red deer, your reasons are wrong" - that is a pointless statement, it is not an argument, it does not make sense, and it is not correct.

 

Just because I have no experience with an in-depth, degree level study of Sir Isaac Newton, does not mean that Newton's theory of gravity is wrong!

 

In terms of experience with different rounds - the fact that I don't have, and have not fired, a 260 Rem, means diddly squat. I have a 243 and a 308, and I have loaded both with a large variety of bullets, and powder loads, and have a considerable amount of data from those loads. My old Winchester drove a 70gr Nosler accurately at 3500+ fps, and inaccurately at 3700 fps. If I'd had a box of 55gr Noslers at the time, I could have easily driven them at 4000+.

 

With the 22" barrel of the Howa, I lose velocity, especially with it being a 243. The 3875 muzzle velocity is perfectly adequate, and still serves to highlight the versatility of the round. You simply cannot get a 260 Rem to do that job, nor a 308.

 

Are those rounds better for deer? Maybe, yes they are. But here's a thing, a 243 will kill any deer in the UK, so long as you shoot accurately. I can shoot accurately, so if you think my inexperience on reds would stop me placing a shot accurately, how about this - you provide the deer, and I will prove you're talking crap.

 

It matters not a jot what I can do or what you can do - the simple fact, and it is a fact, is that 243 WILL do the job, and its versatility is given by the multitude of bullets that can be used. If you want to argue a 260 Rem or a 308 is a better all round calibre, you crack on. The rest of us will stick with the facts.

[jamie g 17]

easy lads every rifle has there + an - points at the end of the day if you have the right guns for your shooting that is all that matters.

i want to get a 243 or a 6mm br i dont no yet what im doing i piss about all the time thinking of this and that and end up back where i started i have spoke to flo and he said i can have any of the above to but must swap it for my 22/250 well this seamed pretty fair at 1st.

 

i no think i need both rifles. 243 because its minium for roe. but i dont want to use it as a foxing rifle all the time. thats why i want to keep the 22/250.

 

the 243 with 70 grain blizkings sound very good tho for fox

[riohog 5,701]

easy lads every rifle has there + an - points at the end of the day if you have the right guns for your shooting that is all that matters.

i want to get a 243 or a 6mm br i dont no yet what im doing i piss about all the time thinking of this and that and end up back where i started i have spoke to flo and he said i can have any of the above to but must swap it for my 22/250 well this seamed pretty fair at 1st.

 

i no think i need both rifles. 243 because its minium for roe. but i dont want to use it as a foxing rifle all the time. thats why i want to keep the 22/250.

 

the 243 with 70 grain blizkings sound very good tho for fox

cant fault the .243 have had one for many years along with a .308 .222 '@.22 shot foxes with them all day and night they all end up dead so it aint the calibre its where you place the shot that matters

[harrygrey382 1]

aside from the ammo availabilty, how about 25-06 being the best all rounder? Surely at least as flat as a 243 with the right bullet?

[coldweld 65]

No, a fox couldn't give a shit, it's still dead. But in terms of foxing at night, with limited opportunity to dial in for drop and windage, a round that is flat as a pancake to nigh on 300 yards is a hell of a lot more practical than a 100gr deer bullet.

 

You say (and I am paraphrasing) - "because you lack experience with shooting red deer, your reasons are wrong" - that is a pointless statement, it is not an argument, it does not make sense, and it is not correct.

 

Just because I have no experience with an in-depth, degree level study of Sir Isaac Newton, does not mean that Newton's theory of gravity is wrong!

 

In terms of experience with different rounds - the fact that I don't have, and have not fired, a 260 Rem, means diddly squat. I have a 243 and a 308, and I have loaded both with a large variety of bullets, and powder loads, and have a considerable amount of data from those loads. My old Winchester drove a 70gr Nosler accurately at 3500+ fps, and inaccurately at 3700 fps. If I'd had a box of 55gr Noslers at the time, I could have easily driven them at 4000+.

 

With the 22" barrel of the Howa, I lose velocity, especially with it being a 243. The 3875 muzzle velocity is perfectly adequate, and still serves to highlight the versatility of the round. You simply cannot get a 260 Rem to do that job, nor a 308.

 

Are those rounds better for deer? Maybe, yes they are. But here's a thing, a 243 will kill any deer in the UK, so long as you shoot accurately. I can shoot accurately, so if you think my inexperience on reds would stop me placing a shot accurately, how about this - you provide the deer, and I will prove you're talking crap.

 

It matters not a jot what I can do or what you can do - the simple fact, and it is a fact, is that 243 WILL do the job, and its versatility is given by the multitude of bullets that can be used. If you want to argue a 260 Rem or a 308 is a better all round calibre, you crack on. The rest of us will stick with the facts.

 

I never said you were wrong . I said your arguments did not add up. So STICK to the facts !

And calm down why get all hot and bothered , i have not remarked on you marksmanship i just asked about you practical experience with large deer.

[Mr_Logic 5]

<sigh> to say someone's arguments do not add up is to say that they're wrong.

 

Let me just check we're arguing about the same point? I say 243 and 25-06 are the best all round calibres because they are equally at home on either deer or fox. You're saying because I haven't shot a red that this is wrong, and that 260 Rem or 308 Are just as good.

 

I'm disagreeing because you can't shoot light varmint bullets really fast out of either calibre. And you're saying this is wrong because I haven't managed 4000fps out of my current rifle.

 

So what is your counter argument? I am a bit lost here as I've not seen anything constructive about why my arguments are wrong.

[coldweld 65]

<sigh> to say someone's arguments do not add up is to say that they're wrong.

 

Let me just check we're arguing about the same point? I say 243 and 25-06 are the best all round calibres because they are equally at home on either deer or fox. You're saying because I haven't shot a red that this is wrong, and that 260 Rem or 308 Are just as good.

 

I'm disagreeing because you can't shoot light varmint bullets really fast out of either calibre. And you're saying this is wrong because I haven't managed 4000fps out of my current rifle.

 

So what is your counter argument? I am a bit lost here as I've not seen anything constructive about why my arguments are wrong.

 

No you are saying you only deal in FACT , i was asking if you had practical experience of what you were talking about .

And the facts are you don't have experience of shooting large deer, or much on the rifles you dismiss .

 

Your only argument seams to be a rifle that can throw out a round at 4000 fps it is king, but you have not done that either [ current rifle or your old one ]

 

My Question is why do you think a light round going at max speed with a max load is the think that makes any one round the best ?

 

And this is supposed to be a debating forum

[bert69 5]

Anyway, while you gents have been waxing lyrical about the ins and outs of every calibre i have ever heard of i've been out and bought a Howa 1500 .243 with a t8 mod and plan to put some nosla 100 grains through it at a piece of paper and then a fallow doe at the earliest oppurtunity. Enjoy arguing i'm off shooting.

[Deker 3,478]

Anyway, while you gents have been waxing lyrical about the ins and outs of every calibre i have ever heard of i've been out and bought a Howa 1500 .243 with a t8 mod and plan to put some nosla 100 grains through it at a piece of paper and then a fallow doe at the earliest oppurtunity. Enjoy arguing i'm off shooting.

 

 

Best of luck with it, you have certainly made the right choice calibre wise for a deer/fox rifle, and Howas tend to be Ok too!

 

Far bigger choice of ammo to deal with all sorts of situations/quarry with a .243 than a .260, and personally I do not consider a .308 a deer/fox rifle! (even though mine is conditioned for both).

 

ATB!

[Mr_Logic 5]

Bert - good choice of rifle. Mine is working well. Let me know how you get on with the 100gr, mine's not a fan so I'm interested to see how yours does.

 

Coldweld, I am struggling here, I really am. You don't seem to be able to read very well. Perhaps a five-year-old would be of use to you, to explain the complicated words? I have explained my argument pretty well.

 

Here it is again, please read it this time, I can't be arsed to keep repeating it.

 

We are talking about a rifle for all-round use. All round being for fox, and for deer. The definition of an all-rounder is something or someone which is as happy doing one thing as another. For example in cricket, an all rounder is someone who could be picked for the team based on two disciplines - batting/bowling, or wicket-keeping/batting. It is NOT something which is good at one and poor at another, but would just about do.

 

Under this definition, 243 is IN because it excels at fox/varmint and is perfectly capable on any deer in the UK - whether or not I personally shoot red deer, many people do every year, often with a .243, and with fatal consequences. 260 Rem is OUT because it's a deer round, which can be used on fox, if the situation presents itself - you wouldn't reach into the cabinet and go "I'm going foxing tonight, I'll take a .260" - you don't even do that, you have a 22-250!

 

Same applies for .308.

 

25-06 is IN because it is a very good deer round by all recommendations, and has a wide array of pretty decent varmint bullets.

 

Therefore, calibres are 25-06 or 243, all work well. The others aren't all-rounders and therefore their capacity on deer is irrelevant - what is required is a rifle which is proficient, and 243 most definitely is.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

easy lads every rifle has there + an - points at the end of the day if you have the right guns for your shooting that is all that matters.

i want to get a 243 or a 6mm br i dont no yet what im doing i piss about all the time thinking of this and that and end up back where i started i have spoke to flo and he said i can have any of the above to but must swap it for my 22/250 well this seamed pretty fair at 1st.

 

i no think i need both rifles. 243 because its minium for roe. but i dont want to use it as a foxing rifle all the time. thats why i want to keep the 22/250.

 

the 243 with 70 grain blizkings sound very good tho for fox

 

 

It was with the 70g blitz kings that i shot the 437 yarder, and it didn't flinch, i use the .243 as a triple calibre, targets, deer, fox, spent a fortune getting a rifle built i would feel comfortable With,

 

i could of rechambered during the build, but decided to stick with it....

 

 

i even lengthend the barrel.... 24.5 inches.....

 

If you have go get rid of the 22-250, you will not be disappointed with the .243 as a foxing calibre....

 

Snap.

[bert69 5]

Well i played with it for a bit yesterday evening and near enough zeroed it in with the 85 grains just leaning on the back of my truck, then i chucked the 100 grains in it just to see what it does and poked 3 through the 2" square at 100 yards, that'll do for now, i need to sort out a bipod and a bit of tarp to lay on before i zero in good and proper (it was a bit of a rush job straight after work)then try after a fallow on Sunday with any luck.

[jamie g 17]

thanks snap im going to wait till next year then get get my winchester rebarreled. i think this is best choice. it has a h&s stock and jewell trigger allready

 

like yo ui looked at 243 ai but i think it just brings more bother in the fact you have to fire form. and for the extra speed you get that wouldnt really ben needed inless your at long range.

 

70 grain blizkings sounds perfect to me. i would have 24 inch barrel. what barrel did you get. and who done the work

[177LANDY 0]

I got my variation all done and dusted for 243 because as some on here have rightly said it is a good allround rifle. I've shot different types at all sorts and on my shoot it is mainly fallow which a 100 grain sorts out quite nicely with a well placed close range neck shot or boiler house at longer ranges. I just wanted peoples opinions on different rifles really as i have been using a friends tikka t3 with varmint barrel and that is a lovely rifle but i can only find them brand new at the minute so by the time ive added a mod and scope it will start getting a bit pricey! I think people talk alot of rubbish about calibres on here, you dont need elephant guns for anything bigger than a muntjac! I've shot foxes with my .22 and subsonic rounds at yards, now this isn't a boast and i wouldn't advocate that all you need for foxes is a rimfire! In that situation i had been shooting rabbits from my quad at that range and dropping them with head shots every time so when charlie appeared in the distance and came in to a squeak i shot him straight through the eye you could barely see that he'd been shot. I know you can't do this everytime same as you can't neck shoot a fallow everytime but the right tool in the right place is better than a bigger tool in the wrong place or so my missus tells me.

That last srntance is brilliant

Edited December 11, 2009 by 177LANDY