Swallowing things whole

[Rainmaker 7]

I know i am going to sound a bit of a fool, but i have never let my dogs have bones for fear of them getting stuck or doing damage internaly

Are there any bones to avoid and is there any real risk?

Please convert me i would love to see my dogs with a bone

 

Don't worry mate, pet food manufacturers have been propagating the 'bones are dangerous' myth for a long while now. Despite the fact that raw food (whole raw carcasses and raw meaty bones) is a dogs' natural diet, the bone myth has pretty much become ingrained in the national psyche to the extent of forming accepted 'fact'. "Why feed such' dangerous' things when we can buy safe, 100% complete and balanced nutrition in a bag?"... No wonder so many people are afraid of feeding raw, especially bones, in that case. Unfortunately the commercial foods are anything but 'safe', the whole 100% complete and balanced line is a myth, and commercial pet foods are a store-house of disease, pain, misery and early death for our dogs, cats and ferrets. And yes, there's a mountain of independent scientific proof out there to prove it. The funny thing is, of every vet who's tut-tutted when I mention I feed (and have fed for many years) raw food, not ONE has been able to actually give me an example of a time they've had to save a dog who came to harm from a RAW meaty bone!

 

"Oh we had a dog with a stuck bone once... actually it's not uncommon," they start. I ask whether it was a RAW bone or a COOKED bone, and they start to look flustered. "Dunno... erm..."

 

RAW meaty bones are perfectly natural, healthy and life-giving foods for a dog. It's what they evolved to eat. COOKED bones on the other hand can and DO splinter, get stuck, obstruct bowels and cause all manner of problems. Never feed cooked bones, only nice raw ones. A dog's (cat's or ferret's) stomach acid is around pH 1 (WAY more acidic than ours) and will make a raw bone go soft and floppy in minutes inside the stomach, and turn it to mere powdery slurry in an hour or so. No issues at all, there!

 

That being the case, why is commercial pet food still being made and sold? Why do people buy it, let alone feed it to their animals? Good questions, but such health and life-threatening danger hasn't stopped cigarette production or sales nor many people from consuming them. The commercial pet junk food fraud is even worse, because it's insidious and unlike cigarettes, you have to dig through a thick layer of advertising, PR and half-truths to get to the real facts of the matter. Commercial pet junk food is a multi-billion pound business, and it shows.

 

Vets receive only around 8 hours of 'nutritional training' at vet school, out of five whole years, and most of that is delivered by or on behalf of pet food manufacturers. Not very biased then?!... Vets are offered free or heavily subsidised commercial pet food throughout vet school, encouraged from the highest levels to recommend it to their clients, and make a heavy profit from doing so. They're not much more qualified as nutritional professionals than anyone who's kept working dogs for a bit or who has read a couple of books. In fact, it's sad to say, the majority of vets are (often unwittingly) nothing more than pet food manufacturer sales reps in lab coats!

 

Have you ever seen a vets WITHOUT a stand of "Science diet" or similar, with all those posters with pet food company names on them? When it comes to actually looking at the available, unbiased evidence and asking questions of this 'establishment', woe betide the dissenter! Vets have been, and still are, exiled from the profession for life and struck off the register simply for questioning out loud this collaboration between pet food manufacturers and the veterinary industry. Why? When they put pen to paper, write to the journals and industry magazines, or worse still inform the public(!) that the evidence available supports a natural raw diet, not commercially manufactured rendered grains, animal by-products and artificial additives, they are sent to Coventry and silenced/discredited!

 

They're never struck off for misconduct, as their assertions are (1) true and (2) backed heavily by the available evidence. Instead, they're exiled for 'bringing the profession into disrepute'. Think of it! They find a problem in the way the industry is working, at the detriment to animals' heath and owners' wallets, and are not applauded and thanked, but excommunicated! For example, Dr Tom Lonsdale. In the 1990s after about 15 years as a practising vet, he realised that vets were pushing commercial pet junk food onto their clients, that food was then making animals sick, and the vets were then treating the resultant illnesses! Quite the efficient 'problem-reaction-solution' marketing scam! He formed the "Raw Meaty Bones Lobby" comprising like-minded vets, who had also seen the results in their surgeries, read the science and realised the harm being done. Tom and his colleagues wrote scientific, sound research papers and began publishing them to show the dangers of commercial food and the suitability of healthy raw feeding - and soon the vet industry bit back and struck them off for it!

 

Now that the public is becoming more educated about the terrible effect that commercial food is having on their pets' health, pet food manufacturers (and many vets) are upping the ante. Yes, they admit (now the evidence is widely available), our foods are almost guaranteed to give your pet periodontal disease. It's the wrong type, size, shape and consistency of food, and as a result their mouths rot from the inside out - poisoning the whole body, shutting down the liver, kidneys, pancreas and heart, and slowly and painfully killing your pets! Not to mention the diabetes, immune system overload, and intense allergies caused by the massive (completely unnecessary and totally unsuitable) amounts of grain in commercial foods. Did you ever see a wild wolf or dog raid a grain field?!

 

Where are the multi-million pound lawsuits? The criminal enquiries? Instead, these companies say "Hey, how about we sell you this 'dental kibble', enzyme toothpaste, plastic bone-shaped chew, and 10% off your local vet surgery's dental surgery fees?"... LOL Again, make a problem, react to it, and provide the 'solution'. Surely better to avoid all this dental disease, pain, organ failure, autoimmune disease, diabetes, arthritis, and early death to begin with? You only need to feed an appropriate diet and all these problems start to disappear. Don't buy into the 'problem-reaction-solution' merry-go-round, shout STOP! and take the first step to helping your pets, and your wallets.

 

As for 'converting' you (your words not mine!), where to start? There are so many reasons to feed raw I'm almost struggling to list them! Here's a few snippets, all with strong scientific proof behind them, to tempt and inform you:

 

• Dogs are carnivores, not omnivores, regardless of what pet food companies tell you.
• Dogs are designed, as are all carnivores, to eat other animals (meat, bones, fat, offal) - NOT grains, fruit, veg, nuts and seeds.
• Dogs fed on commercial food (regardless of how expensive or "premium" it is) develop a massive range of painful, degenerative and ultimately fatal diseases, which don't occur in raw fed dogs.
• Dogs fed on raw food are happier, healthier, cost FAR less in vets bills than commercially fed dogs on average, and usually live longer.
• Dogs fed on raw food don't become "old and stiff" or "slow in their age" as dogs suffering degenerative disease (autoimmune, arthritis, diabetes, pancreatitis, organ failure, cancer etc) at the hands of commercial foods do. Instead they tend to live to a ripe old age in good health and vitality, and then simply and peacefully 'drop off their perch'.
• Raw feeding is at least as cheap as, and if you're willing to shop around VERY much cheaper than, commercial food. I pay £2 per 5KG of fresh whole raw meaty chicken frames for example, and that's about the dearest food I buy. That £2 will feed a terrier for a month, a medium lurcher for a fortnight, or a mastiff for almost a week. Throw in a few table scraps and butcher's throw-aways, and a bit of tripe and offal, and you're set.
• Commercial food is PROVEN to cause oral/dental disease, systemic ill health and early death.
• Feeding whole raw meaty bones and carcasses washes, cleans, scrubs and polishes teeth and gums with every meal, preventing dental disease and its associated nasties.
• Dogs fed on a species-appropriate diet of whole raw carcasses and raw meaty bones pass poo that consists of (relatively) tiny pellets that are dry, hard, and turn white in the sun. They do NOT pass the brown, bloated, sloppy, squishy, soft and SMELLY fly-attracting logs that dogs fed on commercial junk do. That's because raw food is so incredibly digestible, and doesn't contain masses of "fillers" like grains that commercial foods do. About all that's left to pass out the back of a raw fed dog is some excess calcium powder compressed into little pellets and so his poo is about 1/3 of the volume of his commercially-fed brethren. This gives their anal glands a good workout and prevents them blocking too!

There are literally hundreds of reasons to feed raw (including meaty bones and whole carcasses). I can't really think of one genuine reason NOT to do so. There are a lot of myths and untruths surrounding raw feeding though, mostly propagated by pet food manufacturers and the vets in their grasp. I highly recommend you download and read the files I'm attaching here, as well as read the Raw Feeding Myth List on the RawFed.com site. That site debunks (with sound scientific referencing) all the common 'but...' type myths surrounding raw feeding.

 

For example, it will discuss in lively and easy to follow rationale why the "dogs are omnivores", "raw meat is dangerous", "bones get stuck", "dogs need carbohydrates" and other such myths and hype are just that... rubbish! Also check out Dr Tom Lonsdale's website, Raw Meaty Bones and UKRMB. Do yourself and your dog a favour, and get stuck in. Let THEM show you just what you (and more importantly THEY) have been missing out on. It's never too late to take a positive step forward for their health and longevity. Their performance will get a boost too! You can feed whatever you can source, dogs aren't fussy about what it looks like or how much it cost. There are only a few 'golden rules':

 

• Feed WHOLE carcasses and large pieces of raw meaty bones where possible. Whole carcasses (whole rabbits and game birds, whole fish etc) and large pieces of raw meaty bones (meaty chicken frames, half a whole chicken, pork rib racks, pig trotters, heads, lamb breast, necks, shoulders, bellies and legs, hocks, you name it!) all need chewing, which means clean teeth and healthy gums.
• Therefore conversely, DON'T feed a lot of mince or small pieces or bone (wings, drumsticks, anything chopped up small when you could have fed the whole thing etc) as they - even raw - can accumulate along the gumline causing dental disease, or be 'inhaled' and cause issues. If you feed large RAW pieces, and whole RAW carcasses, you won't ever have to worry about it.
• Feed a VARIETY of things. If you can only get chicken frames for a bit, that's OK. Just make sure to provide a bit of mince-something-else and tripe, heart and kidney etc. Add as much variety of LARGE raw meaty bones as you can as you go. More protein sources = more varied nutrients = a healthier diet. Just like with people really.
• DO feed whole liver around once every 2 weeks. It's cheap and nutritious, but too much gives them the runs! They get a lot of iron and vitamin A from it, and liver is essential in small amounts (of the overall diet). Heart is a muscle but can be fed like offal - once or twice a week. Ditto kidney and any other organs you can source locally. Whole raw eggs (shells too if you can get them to eat them!) are a great, very high quality protein and fat source.
• Dogs do NOT require carbohydrates - grains, fruit, vegetables, or anything like that. In high amounts (as with commercial foods) it's positively harmful to them.
• Feed around 70% of their diet as raw meaty bones and the other 30% can be pretty much anything you like - including offal and eggs, human table scraps (avoid grapes, garlic, chocolate, onions etc), rotten fruit (they like it even if they can't have it as a large portion of the diet - like us with sweets!), puréed/cooked veggies and so on. The odd bit of left-over pasta and Sunday roast won't do any harm, but do keep to around 70% or more raw meaty bones and carcasses. As a hunter I'm sure you're well able to source rabbits, hare, pheasant, squirrel, maybe venison, and all that stuff.
• As I said, ONLY RAW and NEVER COOKED bones!
• About the only bones to avoid as a meal are large, hard 'marrow bones' from cows and suchlike. They're too big and hard, and especially when cut/sawn by a butcher, are good at snapping teeth in half! Even wild wolves don't bother with the leg bones as a rule - copy their lead!

Although all dogs are different, on average you need to feed an adult dog about 2% to 3% of their weight in raw meaty bones a day, or 15% to 20% a week. Giant breeds can be fed as little as 1% to 1.5% of their weight in food a day, or 7% to 10% a week. Raw is safe (actually IDEAL) for puppies from weaning onwards - no need for weetabix, grains, cereals, rusks or biscuits. Feed growing pups around 3% of their expected adult weight in raw food a day. So for example:

 

Gypsy, my 7KG (15lb) terrier: 7KG = 7,000 grams. 0.03 (aka 3%) x 7000 = 210 grams (1/2 a pound) of food per day, or about 1.4KG (3lbs) a week.

Fido, a 20KG (44lb) lurcher: 20KG = 20,000 grams. 0.03 x 20,000 = 600g (1.3lbs) of food per day, or about 4KG (8.8lb) a week.

Tyson, a 70KG (154lb) mastiff (big breeds usually need less remember!): 70KG = 70,000 grams. 0.015 (1.5%) x 70,000 = 1050g (2.3lb) of food per day, or about 7.7KG (17lb) a week.

Buddy, a spaniel PUPPY is about 3KG and expected to weigh 20KG when he's grown up. He'll get the same as an adult 20KG dog (see 'Fido' above) spread into four meals a day. So 150g four times daily, or better yet for his teeth, the whole 600g as a large raw meaty bone to chew at through the day as he gets hungry (put it in a bag in the fridge between meals to keep it fresh).

 

If the dog becomes too skinny (showing ribs, overly-pronounced tummy tuck, pin bones start to show) feed more. If they start to get too fat (you can't feel the ribs with a LIGHT touch, but rather have to dig for them, the belly tuck 'drops' and starts to become level with the chest, the dog loses the 'waist' from between his ribs and hips viewed from above) then simply reduce the ration. Highly active dogs need more (up to 5% of their body weight a day in food), sedentary dogs less. Lactating bitches need almost as much as they'll eat, but even then dogs in general will NOT over-eat on raw once they're over the "Oh-my-god-wow-raw-foods!!!" stage, they know when enough is enough so let them guide you within reason if they still act hungry. Burying bones and stashing means you're feeding too much!

 

You won't need to worry about 'balance' and 'supplements' - just feed a variety over time and that's it. No need to panic about vitamins, minerals and all that guff. Whole prey animals (or an approximation made from body parts over time) are a "complete" diet for dogs - it's what they're designed to eat so why on earth would it be somehow nutritionally deficient, regardless of what companies like to scare you with?! Do you worry like that about your own or your kid's diet (provided you don't "live" on McDonald's or Chinese takeaways I guess)? Dogs are no harder to feed correctly than children, and when was the last time you rushed about paying £50 a bag for "super premium, 100% complete and balanced children's kibble"?? LOL You just feed a variety of stuff, and let nature do the rest. Do the same for your dog!

 

Any questions, concerns or complaints, post back here - or you know where I am. PM, email, MSN, I'm always available for people to 'bug' with questions. I also strongly recommend you read "Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health" and "Work Wonders: Feed Raw Meaty Bones" by Dr Tom Lonsdale. I'm not pushing sales - borrow them from the library if you like! But do read them, they're invaluable. Please see the attached brief 'fact sheets' for some basics to get you started. Sorry this post turned out so long, but I only scratched the surface. Hundreds of volumes have been written on the subject, and it's a complex one! But luckily in the 'real world' you only need to feed raw meaty bones, and enjoy the benefits.

 

Cheers.

RMB-feeding.pdf

exp-diet-guide.pdf

[irishnut 297]

100% mate, i'm feeding fresh and raw since i got my first dog 4 years ago, after seeing the size of the crap coming out of him, i thought he couldn't be fed on 'complete' crap anymore, he has since passed on from cancer in his throat ( his mother and brother both had it, and didnt belong to me, so dont blame raw), i now have 2 pups, a springer and a border x lakeland and both are fed raw bone, i've had no probs with feeding them, they eat until full,and finish of when hungry again, and the poo is easier cleaned up as its dry, i do feed them offal and a raw egg once a week, and they are in great shape, no probs weaning from dry crap (breeder fed) to raw bones as its natural. and its cheaper my 22lr gets the rabbits, so its around 11p each, the local commercial butcher that supplies shop butchers gives away bones to anyone looking them as it saves him having to pay for the removal.

DOGS need no converting its us who need to think before we buy what the tv tells us.

happy hunting

[Rainmaker 7]

100% mate, i'm feeding fresh and raw since i got my first dog 4 years ago, after seeing the size of the crap coming out of him, i thought he couldn't be fed on 'complete' crap anymore, he has since passed on from cancer in his throat ( his mother and brother both had it, and didnt belong to me, so dont blame raw), i now have 2 pups, a springer and a border x lakeland and both are fed raw bone, i've had no probs with feeding them, they eat until full,and finish of when hungry again, and the poo is easier cleaned up as its dry, i do feed them offal and a raw egg once a week, and they are in great shape, no probs weaning from dry crap (breeder fed) to raw bones as its natural. and its cheaper my 22lr gets the rabbits, so its around 11p each, the local commercial butcher that supplies shop butchers gives away bones to anyone looking them as it saves him having to pay for the removal.

DOGS need no converting its us who need to think before we buy what the tv tells us.

happy hunting

 

[peefa 0]

Well you have convinced me mate. Will have to find a good source and get started. Excellent informed replies not something you allways get on THL

[bullmastiff 615]

An excellent post Rainmaker and rest assured I will be bugging you with questions!! Half the problem with swapping to the BARF diet isn't with the dog, it's with us and the uncertainty that your getting the right meat/fat/bone/veg ratio, so you end up feeding complete food as well 'just incase'.

Health issues is one of the main reasons I started 'converting' to the BARF diet but my biggest problem is finding suppliers. I get as much as I can from Morrissons 'cheap' section and can get enormous amounts of beef fat from the butcher but stuggle to get anything else. All of the butchers around here have clicked to the BARF diet and now charge the earth for their waste. I can also get pigs trotters by the bucketfull but was told too much pork was bad for dogs? could you shed some light on that?

 

Thank you again

 

Luke.

[Rainmaker 7]

An excellent post Rainmaker and rest assured I will be bugging you with questions!! Half the problem with swapping to the BARF diet isn't with the dog, it's with us and the uncertainty that your getting the right meat/fat/bone/veg ratio, so you end up feeding complete food as well 'just incase'.

 

That's very true mate. Years of 'propaganda' has convinced the population at large that they simply aren't clever enough to feed their pets 'properly' at home, and that only a super special scientific recipe produced by a mega-corporation will suffice. The funny thing is, when people who come to me with those concerns my first question is nearly always "Do you have children?". After they get over the blank, confused look, I ask where they buy their children's kibble from.

 

The point being, no matter how much we love our dogs we'd shoot 100 of them before we saw any harm come to our kids... yet for some reason you 'trust' yourself enough not to buy your children a "100% complete and balanced" food from a multinational corporation. Child abusers!! However do those poor mites cope without "perfectly balanced nutrition in every bite"??

 

You see what I mean, I hope. The fact is by providing a variety of appropriate foods, we don't need to worry about the selenium content, amino acid profile or whether the ratio of vitamin C is higher than the omega 3 content or somesuch... nature finds a balance over time. If you can feed a child (or yourself) what on earth could possibly be so difficult about a dog? The fact is dogs are even easier to feed than people - they don't need anywhere near as much variety to remain healthy. Whereas we need lots of fresh fruit and veg, nuts and seeds, fresh meats and the like to get a 'balanced diet', a dog would not only survive but THRIVE if he only got a whole rabbit or chicken a day for the rest of his life (emphasis on the WHOLE in that analogy). Whole carcasses provide 100% complete nutrition for dogs - if only kids were so easy!

 

Health issues is one of the main reasons I started 'converting' to the BARF diet but my biggest problem is finding suppliers. I get as much as I can from Morrissons 'cheap' section and can get enormous amounts of beef fat from the butcher but stuggle to get anything else. All of the butchers around here have clicked to the BARF diet and now charge the earth for their waste. I can also get pigs trotters by the bucketfull but was told too much pork was bad for dogs? could you shed some light on that?

 

Thank you again

 

Luke.

 

Pork was a 'no-no' for a while many years ago, mainly due to trichomonas in the raw pork supplied to the human food chain. Nowadays our meats are free of such things, and pork is a perfectly safe meat for dogs. It's also higher in fat than even lamb, so great for working dogs and pups needing high energy intake. Pork bones are also relatively soft, and thus very 'edible'. Trotters are good tucka mate, and combined with some whole chickens or quarters (not that dear even from a supermarket if only used as a treat rather than a staple), breast of lamb on the bone, some whole fresh fish (about 30p each at supermarkets) and whatever else you manage to mooch out you'll be laughing. Just remember to feed a piece of whole liver around once a fortnight, as well as things like heart and kidney once or twice a week. Tripe chunks are cheap enough from pet shops (eg AMP/Prize Choice frozen meats) and a great supplement. A couple of raw eggs here and there will also be a nice little 'vitamin capsule' for them as they're packed with goodies and 100% bioavailable protein.

 

I tend to feed like this:

 

Monday: Whole chicken frame (stuffed with tripe chunks and some mince every now and then for variety)

Tuesday: Whole raw fish

Wednesday: Lamb breast

Thursday: Bowl of mince of whatever protein I can't easily get whole or have no RMBs in the freezer for that week (eg turkey, rabbit): with some tripe, heart, kidney and a raw egg mixed in

Friday: Fast day

Saturday: Whole chicken frame

Sunday: What-have-you... Pig head? Trotter? Whole rabbit?

 

As you can see most of the above (if not all, excluding the heads) can be had from a local supermarket and high street/market if you shop around a bit. When you think about the ingredients that's a pretty broad diet after all, and still cheap as chips (or should that be chops?). It'd probably be well worth your while to dive into the yellow pages mate. Check a bit further afield for Abattoirs, Poultry Wholesalers, Meat Wholesalers, Caterers (wholesale) and the like. You'll likely soon find a place you missed. There's always the national delivery companies too (TPMS, Landywoods etc).

 

I hope that was of some use/interest for you. Cheers.

[TOPPER 1,809]

Luke as you know i have loads of dogs from the alaunts down and all mine are on barf i couldnt afford to feed otherwise , most of the stuff i get is pig/ lambs hearts , pigs heads, breast of lamb, ox heart, pig trotters , ox tongues, tripe etc sometimes they get a bit af veg thrown in for good meaure if youve got a good freezer ill tell you where to get it not to far from you

 

16 terriers

 

3 alaunts

 

7 alaunt pups and this lot costs me about £14 a week to feed, happy huntin, top

[Rainmaker 7]

Nice one topper! There you go Luke, a happy ending.

[Hollie 21]

I know i am going to sound a bit of a fool, but i have never let my dogs have bones for fear of them getting stuck or doing damage internaly

Are there any bones to avoid and is there any real risk?

Please convert me i would love to see my dogs with a bone

 

Don't worry mate, pet food manufacturers have been propagating the 'bones are dangerous' myth for a long while now. Despite the fact that raw food (whole raw carcasses and raw meaty bones) is a dogs' natural diet, the bone myth has pretty much become ingrained in the national psyche to the extent of forming accepted 'fact'. "Why feed such' dangerous' things when we can buy safe, 100% complete and balanced nutrition in a bag?"... No wonder so many people are afraid of feeding raw, especially bones, in that case. Unfortunately the commercial foods are anything but 'safe', the whole 100% complete and balanced line is a myth, and commercial pet foods are a store-house of disease, pain, misery and early death for our dogs, cats and ferrets. And yes, there's a mountain of independent scientific proof out there to prove it. The funny thing is, of every vet who's tut-tutted when I mention I feed (and have fed for many years) raw food, not ONE has been able to actually give me an example of a time they've had to save a dog who came to harm from a RAW meaty bone!

 

"Oh we had a dog with a stuck bone once... actually it's not uncommon," they start. I ask whether it was a RAW bone or a COOKED bone, and they start to look flustered. "Dunno... erm..."

 

RAW meaty bones are perfectly natural, healthy and life-giving foods for a dog. It's what they evolved to eat. COOKED bones on the other hand can and DO splinter, get stuck, obstruct bowels and cause all manner of problems. Never feed cooked bones, only nice raw ones. A dog's (cat's or ferret's) stomach acid is around pH 1 (WAY more acidic than ours) and will make a raw bone go soft and floppy in minutes inside the stomach, and turn it to mere powdery slurry in an hour or so. No issues at all, there!

 

That being the case, why is commercial pet food still being made and sold? Why do people buy it, let alone feed it to their animals? Good questions, but such health and life-threatening danger hasn't stopped cigarette production or sales nor many people from consuming them. The commercial pet junk food fraud is even worse, because it's insidious and unlike cigarettes, you have to dig through a thick layer of advertising, PR and half-truths to get to the real facts of the matter. Commercial pet junk food is a multi-billion pound business, and it shows.

 

Vets receive only around 8 hours of 'nutritional training' at vet school, out of five whole years, and most of that is delivered by or on behalf of pet food manufacturers. Not very biased then?!... Vets are offered free or heavily subsidised commercial pet food throughout vet school, encouraged from the highest levels to recommend it to their clients, and make a heavy profit from doing so. They're not much more qualified as nutritional professionals than anyone who's kept working dogs for a bit or who has read a couple of books. In fact, it's sad to say, the majority of vets are (often unwittingly) nothing more than pet food manufacturer sales reps in lab coats!

 

Have you ever seen a vets WITHOUT a stand of "Science diet" or similar, with all those posters with pet food company names on them? When it comes to actually looking at the available, unbiased evidence and asking questions of this 'establishment', woe betide the dissenter! Vets have been, and still are, exiled from the profession for life and struck off the register simply for questioning out loud this collaboration between pet food manufacturers and the veterinary industry. Why? When they put pen to paper, write to the journals and industry magazines, or worse still inform the public(!) that the evidence available supports a natural raw diet, not commercially manufactured rendered grains, animal by-products and artificial additives, they are sent to Coventry and silenced/discredited!

 

They're never struck off for misconduct, as their assertions are (1) true and (2) backed heavily by the available evidence. Instead, they're exiled for 'bringing the profession into disrepute'. Think of it! They find a problem in the way the industry is working, at the detriment to animals' heath and owners' wallets, and are not applauded and thanked, but excommunicated! For example, Dr Tom Lonsdale. In the 1990s after about 15 years as a practising vet, he realised that vets were pushing commercial pet junk food onto their clients, that food was then making animals sick, and the vets were then treating the resultant illnesses! Quite the efficient 'problem-reaction-solution' marketing scam! He formed the "Raw Meaty Bones Lobby" comprising like-minded vets, who had also seen the results in their surgeries, read the science and realised the harm being done. Tom and his colleagues wrote scientific, sound research papers and began publishing them to show the dangers of commercial food and the suitability of healthy raw feeding - and soon the vet industry bit back and struck them off for it!

 

Now that the public is becoming more educated about the terrible effect that commercial food is having on their pets' health, pet food manufacturers (and many vets) are upping the ante. Yes, they admit (now the evidence is widely available), our foods are almost guaranteed to give your pet periodontal disease. It's the wrong type, size, shape and consistency of food, and as a result their mouths rot from the inside out - poisoning the whole body, shutting down the liver, kidneys, pancreas and heart, and slowly and painfully killing your pets! Not to mention the diabetes, immune system overload, and intense allergies caused by the massive (completely unnecessary and totally unsuitable) amounts of grain in commercial foods. Did you ever see a wild wolf or dog raid a grain field?!

 

Where are the multi-million pound lawsuits? The criminal enquiries? Instead, these companies say "Hey, how about we sell you this 'dental kibble', enzyme toothpaste, plastic bone-shaped chew, and 10% off your local vet surgery's dental surgery fees?"... LOL Again, make a problem, react to it, and provide the 'solution'. Surely better to avoid all this dental disease, pain, organ failure, autoimmune disease, diabetes, arthritis, and early death to begin with? You only need to feed an appropriate diet and all these problems start to disappear. Don't buy into the 'problem-reaction-solution' merry-go-round, shout STOP! and take the first step to helping your pets, and your wallets.

 

As for 'converting' you (your words not mine!), where to start? There are so many reasons to feed raw I'm almost struggling to list them! Here's a few snippets, all with strong scientific proof behind them, to tempt and inform you:

 

• Dogs are carnivores, not omnivores, regardless of what pet food companies tell you.
• Dogs are designed, as are all carnivores, to eat other animals (meat, bones, fat, offal) - NOT grains, fruit, veg, nuts and seeds.
• Dogs fed on commercial food (regardless of how expensive or "premium" it is) develop a massive range of painful, degenerative and ultimately fatal diseases, which don't occur in raw fed dogs.
• Dogs fed on raw food are happier, healthier, cost FAR less in vets bills than commercially fed dogs on average, and usually live longer.
• Dogs fed on raw food don't become "old and stiff" or "slow in their age" as dogs suffering degenerative disease (autoimmune, arthritis, diabetes, pancreatitis, organ failure, cancer etc) at the hands of commercial foods do. Instead they tend to live to a ripe old age in good health and vitality, and then simply and peacefully 'drop off their perch'.
• Raw feeding is at least as cheap as, and if you're willing to shop around VERY much cheaper than, commercial food. I pay £2 per 5KG of fresh whole raw meaty chicken frames for example, and that's about the dearest food I buy. That £2 will feed a terrier for a month, a medium lurcher for a fortnight, or a mastiff for almost a week. Throw in a few table scraps and butcher's throw-aways, and a bit of tripe and offal, and you're set.
• Commercial food is PROVEN to cause oral/dental disease, systemic ill health and early death.
• Feeding whole raw meaty bones and carcasses washes, cleans, scrubs and polishes teeth and gums with every meal, preventing dental disease and its associated nasties.
• Dogs fed on a species-appropriate diet of whole raw carcasses and raw meaty bones pass poo that consists of (relatively) tiny pellets that are dry, hard, and turn white in the sun. They do NOT pass the brown, bloated, sloppy, squishy, soft and SMELLY fly-attracting logs that dogs fed on commercial junk do. That's because raw food is so incredibly digestible, and doesn't contain masses of "fillers" like grains that commercial foods do. About all that's left to pass out the back of a raw fed dog is some excess calcium powder compressed into little pellets and so his poo is about 1/3 of the volume of his commercially-fed brethren. This gives their anal glands a good workout and prevents them blocking too!

There are literally hundreds of reasons to feed raw (including meaty bones and whole carcasses). I can't really think of one genuine reason NOT to do so. There are a lot of myths and untruths surrounding raw feeding though, mostly propagated by pet food manufacturers and the vets in their grasp. I highly recommend you download and read the files I'm attaching here, as well as read the Raw Feeding Myth List on the RawFed.com site. That site debunks (with sound scientific referencing) all the common 'but...' type myths surrounding raw feeding.

 

For example, it will discuss in lively and easy to follow rationale why the "dogs are omnivores", "raw meat is dangerous", "bones get stuck", "dogs need carbohydrates" and other such myths and hype are just that... rubbish! Also check out Dr Tom Lonsdale's website, Raw Meaty Bones and UKRMB. Do yourself and your dog a favour, and get stuck in. Let THEM show you just what you (and more importantly THEY) have been missing out on. It's never too late to take a positive step forward for their health and longevity. Their performance will get a boost too! You can feed whatever you can source, dogs aren't fussy about what it looks like or how much it cost. There are only a few 'golden rules':

 

• Feed WHOLE carcasses and large pieces of raw meaty bones where possible. Whole carcasses (whole rabbits and game birds, whole fish etc) and large pieces of raw meaty bones (meaty chicken frames, half a whole chicken, pork rib racks, pig trotters, heads, lamb breast, necks, shoulders, bellies and legs, hocks, you name it!) all need chewing, which means clean teeth and healthy gums.
• Therefore conversely, DON'T feed a lot of mince or small pieces or bone (wings, drumsticks, anything chopped up small when you could have fed the whole thing etc) as they - even raw - can accumulate along the gumline causing dental disease, or be 'inhaled' and cause issues. If you feed large RAW pieces, and whole RAW carcasses, you won't ever have to worry about it.
• Feed a VARIETY of things. If you can only get chicken frames for a bit, that's OK. Just make sure to provide a bit of mince-something-else and tripe, heart and kidney etc. Add as much variety of LARGE raw meaty bones as you can as you go. More protein sources = more varied nutrients = a healthier diet. Just like with people really.
• DO feed whole liver around once every 2 weeks. It's cheap and nutritious, but too much gives them the runs! They get a lot of iron and vitamin A from it, and liver is essential in small amounts (of the overall diet). Heart is a muscle but can be fed like offal - once or twice a week. Ditto kidney and any other organs you can source locally. Whole raw eggs (shells too if you can get them to eat them!) are a great, very high quality protein and fat source.
• Dogs do NOT require carbohydrates - grains, fruit, vegetables, or anything like that. In high amounts (as with commercial foods) it's positively harmful to them.
• Feed around 70% of their diet as raw meaty bones and the other 30% can be pretty much anything you like - including offal and eggs, human table scraps (avoid grapes, garlic, chocolate, onions etc), rotten fruit (they like it even if they can't have it as a large portion of the diet - like us with sweets!), puréed/cooked veggies and so on. The odd bit of left-over pasta and Sunday roast won't do any harm, but do keep to around 70% or more raw meaty bones and carcasses. As a hunter I'm sure you're well able to source rabbits, hare, pheasant, squirrel, maybe venison, and all that stuff.
• As I said, ONLY RAW and NEVER COOKED bones!
• About the only bones to avoid as a meal are large, hard 'marrow bones' from cows and suchlike. They're too big and hard, and especially when cut/sawn by a butcher, are good at snapping teeth in half! Even wild wolves don't bother with the leg bones as a rule - copy their lead!

Although all dogs are different, on average you need to feed an adult dog about 2% to 3% of their weight in raw meaty bones a day, or 15% to 20% a week. Giant breeds can be fed as little as 1% to 1.5% of their weight in food a day, or 7% to 10% a week. Raw is safe (actually IDEAL) for puppies from weaning onwards - no need for weetabix, grains, cereals, rusks or biscuits. Feed growing pups around 3% of their expected adult weight in raw food a day. So for example:

 

Gypsy, my 7KG (15lb) terrier: 7KG = 7,000 grams. 0.03 (aka 3%) x 7000 = 210 grams (1/2 a pound) of food per day, or about 1.4KG (3lbs) a week.

Fido, a 20KG (44lb) lurcher: 20KG = 20,000 grams. 0.03 x 20,000 = 600g (1.3lbs) of food per day, or about 4KG (8.8lb) a week.

Tyson, a 70KG (154lb) mastiff (big breeds usually need less remember!): 70KG = 70,000 grams. 0.015 (1.5%) x 70,000 = 1050g (2.3lb) of food per day, or about 7.7KG (17lb) a week.

Buddy, a spaniel PUPPY is about 3KG and expected to weigh 20KG when he's grown up. He'll get the same as an adult 20KG dog (see 'Fido' above) spread into four meals a day. So 150g four times daily, or better yet for his teeth, the whole 600g as a large raw meaty bone to chew at through the day as he gets hungry (put it in a bag in the fridge between meals to keep it fresh).

 

If the dog becomes too skinny (showing ribs, overly-pronounced tummy tuck, pin bones start to show) feed more. If they start to get too fat (you can't feel the ribs with a LIGHT touch, but rather have to dig for them, the belly tuck 'drops' and starts to become level with the chest, the dog loses the 'waist' from between his ribs and hips viewed from above) then simply reduce the ration. Highly active dogs need more (up to 5% of their body weight a day in food), sedentary dogs less. Lactating bitches need almost as much as they'll eat, but even then dogs in general will NOT over-eat on raw once they're over the "Oh-my-god-wow-raw-foods!!!" stage, they know when enough is enough so let them guide you within reason if they still act hungry. Burying bones and stashing means you're feeding too much!

 

You won't need to worry about 'balance' and 'supplements' - just feed a variety over time and that's it. No need to panic about vitamins, minerals and all that guff. Whole prey animals (or an approximation made from body parts over time) are a "complete" diet for dogs - it's what they're designed to eat so why on earth would it be somehow nutritionally deficient, regardless of what companies like to scare you with?! Do you worry like that about your own or your kid's diet (provided you don't "live" on McDonald's or Chinese takeaways I guess)? Dogs are no harder to feed correctly than children, and when was the last time you rushed about paying £50 a bag for "super premium, 100% complete and balanced children's kibble"?? LOL You just feed a variety of stuff, and let nature do the rest. Do the same for your dog!

 

Any questions, concerns or complaints, post back here - or you know where I am. PM, email, MSN, I'm always available for people to 'bug' with questions. I also strongly recommend you read "Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health" and "Work Wonders: Feed Raw Meaty Bones" by Dr Tom Lonsdale. I'm not pushing sales - borrow them from the library if you like! But do read them, they're invaluable. Please see the attached brief 'fact sheets' for some basics to get you started. Sorry this post turned out so long, but I only scratched the surface. Hundreds of volumes have been written on the subject, and it's a complex one! But luckily in the 'real world' you only need to feed raw meaty bones, and enjoy the benefits.

 

Cheers.

 

 

I am begining to think you may be god..........................................

[bullmastiff 615]

Well that was easy! cheers Top, that's another beer I'll owe you now! Looks like I'll be fully converted to BARF by the weekend! and it's only 40 miles away so I'll just buy a cheap old chest freezer and buy in bulk.

Thank you for your help everyone. This thread turned out very useful!

[Kay 3,709]

have exactly the same problem with my male greyhound , his food is in the dish all of 10 seconds , he eats anything & everything like that & scavenges like you wouldnt belive even after a belly full of grub , worst dog i have ever had for eating things like that

[Rainmaker 7]

I am begining to think you may be god..........................................

 

LOL Na, if there really was a God, our dogs would live forever......................

[Hollie 21]

I am begining to think you may be god..........................................

 

LOL Na, if there really was a God, our dogs would live forever......................

 

 

True, i forgot i had that as a signature

 

You are a wealth of imformation though but most importantly, you are willing to share it