best dry food to feed my hopefuly pregnat border

[borderbitch 24]

hopefully my border is in pup what dry food do you recommend to be feeding her and why thanks mick

[Rainmaker 7]

First question, without taking the mick (pun intended)... does it have to be dry? Raw food is ideal for pregnant and lactating bitches, as well as for weaning the pups. If you must feed dry, I recommend Orijen puppy, which is made from 75% meat and 25% fruit and veg. It's a complete biscuit/kibble, made by a family owned farming coop in Canada. All the meat is farmed locally to them, or by them, and the fish is wild-caught in the Canadian lakes. The food is steam cooked at 90oC to help preserve the nutrients, and unlike grain based foods (it's 100% grain free which is a good thing), it won't swell up a single bit when fed or soaked. This means it won't make the bitch uncomfortable after eating when the pups are growing inside her.

 

It's ideal at 40% protein and 20% fat. The breakdown is as follows:

 

INGREDIENTS

Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, salmon meal, fresh deboned walleye, chicken liver, fresh deboned turkey, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

 

Analysis

High in protein & low in carbohydrates, ORIJEN replicates the diet your puppy would encounter in his natural environment.

 

Protein is from premium 'fit for human consumption' animal ingredients, NOT inappropriate plant source such as potato, soy or pea isolates, or corn or rice glutens.

 

Omega-3 (DHA, EPA) is from fresh fish, NOT inappropriate sunflower, flax or canola oils (ALA) which are ineffective in the body of a dog or cat.

 

Calcium and phosphorus levels are moderate and of natural source.

 

Fresh chicken and turkey cartilage provides a natural and high source of glucosamine and chondroitin.

 

Veterinary selected botanicals soothe, nourish and tone the digestive tract while strengthening the liver.

 

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein (min.) 40.0%

Crude Fat (min.) 20.0%

Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%

Moisture (max.) 10.0%

Calcium (min.) 1.6%

Calcium (max.) 1.8%

Phosphorus (min.) 1.2%

Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%

*Omega-6 (min.) 3.2%

*Omega-3 (min.) 1.2%

*DHA 0.7%

*EPA 0.4%

*Carbohydrate (max.) 18.0%

*Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg

*Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg

*Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg

 

BOTANICAL INCLUSIONS

Chicory root 700 mg/kg

Licorice root 500 mg/kg

Angelica root 350 mg/kg

Fenugreek 350 mg/kg

Marigold flowers 350 mg/kg

Sweet Fennel 350 mg/kg

Peppermint leaf 300 mg/kg

Chamomile flowers 300 mg/kg

Dandelion root 150 mg/kg

Summer savory 150 mg/kg

 

VITAMINS

Vitamin A 15 kIU/kg

Vitamin D3 2000 kIU/kg

Vitamin E 200 IU/kg

Vitamin B12 0.22 mg/kg

Thiamine 50 mg/kg

Riboflavin 40 mg/kg

Niacin 200 mg/kg

Pan. Acid 32 mg/kg

Pyridoxine 26 mg/kg

Biotin 0.83 mg/kg

Folic Acid 3 mg/kg

Choline 2700 mg/kg

Ascorbic Acid 55 mg/kg

Beta carotene 0.40 mg/kg

 

AMINO ACIDS

Taurine 0.3 mg/kg

T. Lysine 2.7%

T. Threonine 1.65%

T. Methionine 0.87%

T. Isoleucine 1.60%

T. Leucine 2.9%

T. Valine 1.9%

T. Arginine 2.9%

T. Phen. 1.6%

T. Histidine 0.85%

T. Cystine 0.5%

 

MINERALS

Sodium 0.4%

Chloride 0.6%

Potassium 0.65%

Magnesium 0.10%

Sulphur 0.4%

Manganese 27 mg/kg

Cobalt 0.47 mg/kg

Iodine 3.5 mg/kg

Selenium 0.35 mg/kg

Iron 300 mg/kg

Zinc 204 mg/kg

Copper 21 mg/kg

 

Calories

A BIOLOGICALLY APPROPRIATE CALORIE DISTRIBUTION

The evolution of all puppies to a high protein, high fat, meat-based diet is evident in their anatomy:

 

There are 3 sources of calories in all dog foods - protein, fat & carbohydrates.

 

Protein and fat are essential, carbohydrates are not. While dogs thrive on proteins and fats, they require absolutely no carbohydrate in their diet.

 

Simple carbohydrates cause blood sugar levels to elevate and fluctuate.

 

When not used for energy, carbohydrates are stored in the body as fat.

 

Carbohydrates are the leading dietary cause of overweight conditions in dogs.

 

By providing more calories from protein and fewer calories from carbohydrate, ORIJEN reduces the risk of obesity, insulin resistance and diabetes.

 

CALORIE CONTENT & DISTRIBUTION

ORIJEN PUPPY has a Metabolizable Energy (ME) of 4200 kcal/kg or 480 kcal per 250ml cup (120g). Calories are distributed to promote peak physical conditioning with 40% from protein, 20% from fruit & vegetables and 40% from fat.

 

It's dear to buy (£46.99 with free delivery for 12.5KG) BUT - and it's a big but, so hear me out - you need to feed so little of it it's actually cheaper than a 'cheapo' working dog food in the long run. My terriers have 60g a day of the stuff and even less if they're having raw food with it. That works out at about 9p per day to feed them, less than half what the cheap "value" working dog and greyhound foods work out at, because you need to shovel 200g plus a day down them to get any nutrition out of it.

[hily 379]

hopefully my border is in pup what dry food do you recommend to be feeding her and why thanks mick

whatever you choose don't over feed her you don't want the pups to big.

[borderbitch 24]

thanks for the reply s guys. i understand that raw meat wud be better but dry food wud be more readly available to me how much is to much before the mating she wud get 1 cup full of meal now she gets a bit more with toast any more advice wud be grateful thanks mick

[Rainmaker 7]

thanks for the reply s guys. i understand that raw meat wud be better but dry food wud be more readly available to me how much is to much before the mating she wud get 1 cup full of meal now she gets a bit more with toast any more advice wud be grateful thanks mick

 

You don't need to give any extra food before mating at all mate, or even for the first four or five weeks of the pregnancy. Just feed small amounts of high quality nutritious food. Toast isn't suitable for dogs at all, stick to high quality biscuit and raw meat/tripe/eggs etc. Have a look at Orijen puppy food as I described above. 2.5KG costs about £11 and would last you over a month. What dry food are you feeding at the moment?

 

I found this guide to be useful btw. It has plenty of tips on when to increase feeding amounts, and is very detailed in embryo development, the whelping process etc. An interesting read for anyone with a pregnant bitch.

[borderbitch 24]

thanks for the advise people ive gone with bakers puppy food dry with a supplement powder called stress (vitamins and minerals and things) in it mick

[Rainmaker 7]

thanks for the advise people ive gone with bakers puppy food dry with a supplement powder called stress (vitamins and minerals and things) in it mick

 

No offence fella but Bakers is one of the worst dry dog foods in the UK, and I'm not exaggerating mate. It's full of sugar, artificial colours and preservatives, and it's low in nutrition. If you don't want to spend Orijen money, try Barking Heads Bad Hair Day, or Wainwright's puppy salmon & potato. Cheers.

[Dawn B 212]

Bakers is crap, rubbish food. Use a decent food like Royal Canin, James Wellbeloved or Arden Grange. If you want your pups to be well nourished and your bitch, feed a decent food.

[kingoftoosh 15]

thanks for the reply s guys. i understand that raw meat wud be better but dry food wud be more readly available to me how much is to much before the mating she wud get 1 cup full of meal now she gets a bit more with toast any more advice wud be grateful thanks mick

Hi bb, I live just down the road from you and I feed my patterdale raw food. Every 8 weeks I go to Bolams In Sedgefield and spend about a tenner. Ideally you want a wee chest freezer to help store the food. My dog loves it, and I like to see him crunch up a chicken wing in about a minute.

ATB KOT

[dodger 2,765]

That orijon sounds like its worth a try, dear but like you say you dont need as much, be good to give em this time of year when they should be ready to peek.

[sandymere 8,263]

By feeding a complete you take away a lot of the guess work of feeding as well as reduce chance of infection, both of which are important in a preganant bitch. Remember there is no real evidence to prove raw is better or worse than a complete. Feeding raw is a bit of a fashion and as with many new ideas tend to throw out the baby with the bath wate. Bear in mind that since the introduction of dog food the average dog has been living longer than ever before. Theres many a waterloo cup and greyhound derby winner raised on complete.

Another fashion at the moment to put one complete above another when often there is little real difference. It doesn't matter to the dogs digestion whether the protein comes from an organically raised Canadian salmon or or a pigs bottom. All that matters is that the correct nutrients are there in an available form. It's like building a house from reclaimed bricks, it doesnt matter if the bricks came from, a palace or a brick sh*t house just as long as they are the right bricks. Bearing this in mind any reasonable quality complete should give a good basic diet. I personally like to add to the basic complete feed to broaden the availabl nutrients with bones, cooked veg, raw and cooked meat and table scraps.

[Rainmaker 7]

By feeding a complete you take away a lot of the guess work of feeding as well as reduce chance of infection, both of which are important in a preganant bitch.

 

There is no evidence that feeding raw poses a risk of infection to a bitch, pregnant or otherwise. I've never heard of such a thing, Dr Tom Lonsdale has never heard of such a thing in decades of practice as a vet advocating raw feeding, nor has anyone else I know of. There is no 'guess work' in feeding raw, and raw fed dogs and litters (mine included) did just fine.

 

Remember there is no real evidence to prove raw is better or worse than a complete. Feeding raw is a bit of a fashion and as with many new ideas tend to throw out the baby with the bath wate.

 

Nonsense mate. As you well know, research shows that >% of dogs fed commercial complete food develop periodontal disease at a level warranting surgical treatment by the age of three years. That figure rises to 100% in older dogs. Periodontal disease is a well established cause of renal, liver and heart failure, autoimmune disease and arthritis, as well as causing a great deal of pain in itself. Raw fed dogs don't suffer periodontal disease as the food cleans their teeth for them. I can provide you a great deal of verified scientific evidence that complete is harmful to dogs.

 

It's a "fashion" that evolved over millennia, only with the introduction of commercial 'complete' foods did dogs start eating stuff OTHER than raw meat, bones and carcasses. It might have come back INTO fashion, but it was doing them just fine for the 1000s of years before Jack Spratt made a quick buck selling Ship's biscuits to dog owners!

 

Bear in mind that since the introduction of dog food the average dog has been living longer than ever before.

 

Since the dog attained a higher ranking in society, owners had more money to spend and vets were more readily available, perhaps. Wolves in the wild live on AVERAGE 16 years, and they eat nothing but raw meaty bones and whole raw carcasses. They certainly don't get "complete" food. They live longer than most dogs, and suffer none of the degenerative diseases facilitated by commercial pet foods. See here for more info and discussion on this.

 

Theres many a waterloo cup and greyhound derby winner raised on complete.

 

If 100% of participants were fed complete that's not an argument but a statement of fact. 100% of serial killers drink water, doesn't mean water causes serial killing!

 

Another fashion at the moment to put one complete above another when often there is little real difference. It doesn't matter to the dogs digestion whether the protein comes from an organically raised Canadian salmon or or a pigs bottom.

 

But a lot of the cheaper foods derive a lot of their protein from grains, which most certainly IS unsuitable. Hence all the maladies afflicting dogs fed on the stuff.

 

All that matters is that the correct nutrients are there in an available form. It's like building a house from reclaimed bricks, it doesnt matter if the bricks came from, a palace or a brick sh*t house just as long as they are the right bricks. Bearing this in mind any reasonable quality complete should give a good basic diet. I personally like to add to the basic complete feed to broaden the availabl nutrients with bones, cooked veg, raw and cooked meat and table scraps.

 

But when those nutrients are simply sprayed back on to a mixed ground and rendered concoction of waste grains, that's hardly conducive to good heath. Dogs also require their food to be in the correct FORM not just amounts. Feeding a 'food' consisting of primarily grain byproducts is well proven to lead to ill health, disease and early death. You can't honestly say, even as someone who advocates commercial foods, that a £5 for 20KG sack of byproducts and artificial vitamins represents anywhere near the same level of nutrition as a £30 for 15KG sack of named ingredients? That's like saying McDonald's has vitamins in it, and we all know what Morgan Spurlock's doctor said to him after checking his liver, when he tried to eat nothing but McD's for 30 days!

[Rainmaker 7]

I'll post this addendum here as it's not fair to edit my original previous post, in case anyone is already reading/quoting it.

 

Don't forget that research also clearly shows that dogs fed on a raw diet perform better in the field - be it hunting or greyhound racing. When fed a diet high in fat, high in protein and almost zero in carbohydrates (i.e. a raw diet) sled dogs run easier for much longer, and greyhounds run faster. They have a much more concentrated albumen level, more red blood cells, more stamina, and don't receive injuries that control group dogs (fed on kibble) do.

 

That's independently verified and I'm happy to provide the references if you wish to look them up.

 

So if all those other derby and cup winners are feeding complete, get yours onto raw and beat the buggers

[kiz 0]

It doesn't matter to the dogs digestion whether the protein comes from an organically raised Canadian salmon or or a pigs bottom.

Before the recent scandal concerning melamine in baby food there was another involving melamine in pet food, added once again to give a false protein level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls

Food companies use the nitrogen-based compound (melamine) in wheat flour and other products to make these products appear to have more protein. Normally, proteins are the only source of nitrogen in food, so by looking for that element in tests, one can figure out relative protein concentrations.

 

I know exactly what my dogs are being fed when feeding raw, do you actually KNOW what is going into processed food?

Edited November 24, 2009 by kiz

[Rainmaker 7]

It doesn't matter to the dogs digestion whether the protein comes from an organically raised Canadian salmon or or a pigs bottom.

Before the recent scandal concerning melamine in baby food there was another involving melamine in pet food, added once again to give a false protein level.

http://en.wikipedia....et_food_recalls

Food companies use the nitrogen-based compound (melamine) in wheat flour and other products to make these products appear to have more protein. Normally, proteins are the only source of nitrogen in food, so by looking for that element in tests, one can figure out relative protein concentrations.

 

I know exactly what my dogs are being fed when feeding raw, do you actually KNOW what is going into processed food?

 

With things like this being a fairly regular occurrence (fatal melamine contamination, fatal E. coli outbreaks, fatal mould toxin outbreaks) you'd think people would think twice about feeding commercial food. Let alone saying there's no evidence it's better or worse than fresh locally sourced raw food!