Rainmaker 7 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No you cant! Yes your right, they dont follow PACE precedures, but they have a duty of care for animals and have the power (if in use for investigation) to seize that animal/or animals for the purpose of an investigation. You dont unless you work for them, or your a police officer and have the grounds to do so. If a member of the public did take these horses, then yes a theft will of occured. Its a bummer i know, but thats the law. CRAP............ Which legislation gives the arsepca legal powers? I'm presuming the new(ish) Animal Welfare Act? Because they definitely didn't have a scrap of legal power (especially entry and/or seizure!!) last time I looked. Further to that (I draw your attention especially to the third bullet point): The Law and the RSPCA By Dr.Barry Peachey LLB(Hons), LLM, PhD, FCollP, MBAE, ACIArb, FETC THIS ARTICLE is written in my joint capacities as Legal Adviser to a number of dog organisations, and Chairman of the Legal Aid Working Party of the British Academy of Experts. I had been approached by a number of dog people, and by fellow professional members of the Academy, and asked to clear up a number of misconceptions about the RSPCA and the law that appear to be widely held and indeed publicly fostered by the Society itself. The RSPCA is a charity. The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body. Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever. They have NO special powers to arrest offenders. They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions. They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request. They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals. Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution. Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public. As I said I'm not trying to be clever, but you seem to know something we don't, and knowledge is power! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No its burglary............. They have been seized for the purpose of an investigation. But the RSPCA aren't Crown officials, nor a law enforcement agency. Perhaps I'm conducting an investigation on YOU (in my above hypothetical scenario obviously lol)... Can I take your dogs now? I don't wish to sound fatuous but I just don't see how they get away with it. The RSPCA only manage to prosecute people in the same way your or I could, under legislation that is a common informers act. It doesn't give them the legal power to enter property or seize property. They aren't the police and don't have PACE powers. No you cant! Yes your right, they dont follow PACE precedures, but they have a duty of care for animals and have the power (if in use for investigation) to seize that animal/or animals for the purpose of an investigation. You dont unless you work for them, or your a police officer and have the grounds to do so. If a member of the public did take these horses, then yes a theft will of occured. Its a bummer i know, but thats the law. CRAP............ THE RSPCA ARE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC OH ATTIC DEFENDER OF THE FAITH AND ALL THINGS RIGHTEOUS WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME IF YOU WERE NOT A RSPCA ORIFICE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No you cant! Yes your right, they dont follow PACE precedures, but they have a duty of care for animals and have the power (if in use for investigation) to seize that animal/or animals for the purpose of an investigation. You dont unless you work for them, or your a police officer and have the grounds to do so. If a member of the public did take these horses, then yes a theft will of occured. Its a bummer i know, but thats the law. CRAP............ Which legislation gives the RSPCA legal powers? I'm presuming the new(ish) Animal Welfare Act? Because they definitely didn't have a scrap of legal power (especially entry and/or seizure!!) last time I looked. Further to that (I draw your attention especially to the third bullet point): The Law and the RSPCA By Dr.Barry Peachey LLB(Hons), LLM, PhD, FCollP, MBAE, ACIArb, FETC THIS ARTICLE is written in my joint capacities as Legal Adviser to a number of dog organisations, and Chairman of the Legal Aid Working Party of the British Academy of Experts. I had been approached by a number of dog people, and by fellow professional members of the Academy, and asked to clear up a number of misconceptions about the RSPCA and the law that appear to be widely held and indeed publicly fostered by the Society itself. The RSPCA is a charity. The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body. Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever. They have NO special powers to arrest offenders. They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions. They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request. They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals. Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution. Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public. As I said I'm not trying to be clever, but you seem to know something we don't, and knowledge is power! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER WELL DONE RAINMAKER FOR PUTTING THAT INFO ON HERE GET A MODD TO PINN IT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
artic 595 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No you cant! Yes your right, they dont follow PACE precedures, but they have a duty of care for animals and have the power (if in use for investigation) to seize that animal/or animals for the purpose of an investigation. You dont unless you work for them, or your a police officer and have the grounds to do so. If a member of the public did take these horses, then yes a theft will of occured. Its a bummer i know, but thats the law. CRAP............ Which legislation gives the RSPCA legal powers? I'm presuming the new(ish) Animal Welfare Act? Because they definitely didn't have a scrap of legal power (especially entry and/or seizure!!) last time I looked. Further to that (I draw your attention especially to the third bullet point): The Law and the RSPCA By Dr.Barry Peachey LLB(Hons), LLM, PhD, FCollP, MBAE, ACIArb, FETC THIS ARTICLE is written in my joint capacities as Legal Adviser to a number of dog organisations, and Chairman of the Legal Aid Working Party of the British Academy of Experts. I had been approached by a number of dog people, and by fellow professional members of the Academy, and asked to clear up a number of misconceptions about the RSPCA and the law that appear to be widely held and indeed publicly fostered by the Society itself. The RSPCA is a charity. The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body. Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever. They have NO special powers to arrest offenders. They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions. They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request. They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals. Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution. Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public. As I said I'm not trying to be clever, but you seem to know something we don't, and knowledge is power! Thats all well and good. There would of been a warrant from the police to allow this to happen, however this will probably be disclosed if the owner of the horses goes to court. Gonetoearth, im no RSPCA officer, doesnt pay well....., however I have many friends in the law department. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaker 7 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Gonetoearth, im no RSPCA officer, doesnt pay well....., however I have many friends in the law department. Friends, or colleagues? I'm pretty sure if the police had obtained a warrant to seize someone's goods they'd have been informed in a way much less subtly than finding an arsepca card in the middle of a field. The police would thus also be carrying out the investigation, and the gent would have been told and had chance to defend himself free of charge. Sounds to me much more like the arsepca up to their usual tricks... nick 'em, run away, and throw money at it til the poor fecker on the receiving end drowns in debt and despair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No you cant! Yes your right, they dont follow PACE precedures, but they have a duty of care for animals and have the power (if in use for investigation) to seize that animal/or animals for the purpose of an investigation. You dont unless you work for them, or your a police officer and have the grounds to do so. If a member of the public did take these horses, then yes a theft will of occured. Its a bummer i know, but thats the law. CRAP............ Which legislation gives the RSPCA legal powers? I'm presuming the new(ish) Animal Welfare Act? Because they definitely didn't have a scrap of legal power (especially entry and/or seizure!!) last time I looked. Further to that (I draw your attention especially to the third bullet point): The Law and the RSPCA By Dr.Barry Peachey LLB(Hons), LLM, PhD, FCollP, MBAE, ACIArb, FETC THIS ARTICLE is written in my joint capacities as Legal Adviser to a number of dog organisations, and Chairman of the Legal Aid Working Party of the British Academy of Experts. I had been approached by a number of dog people, and by fellow professional members of the Academy, and asked to clear up a number of misconceptions about the RSPCA and the law that appear to be widely held and indeed publicly fostered by the Society itself. The RSPCA is a charity. The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body. Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever. They have NO special powers to arrest offenders. They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions. They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request. They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals. Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution. Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public. As I said I'm not trying to be clever, but you seem to know something we don't, and knowledge is power! Thats all well and good. There would of been a warrant from the police to allow this to happen, however this will probably be disclosed if the owner of the horses goes to court. Gonetoearth, im no RSPCA officer, doesnt pay well....., however I have many friends in the law department. WELL IF A WARRANT HAS BEEN SERVERD A COPY WOULD HAVE LEFT WITH THE WORTHLESS PICE OF PAPER THE RSPCA LEFT ASK YOUR BUDDIES ABOUT SERVING WARRANTS AND THE LAW, OH AND UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT THEY WOULD NOT NEED TO GO TO COURT MY MY ATTIC YOU FREINDS SHOULD KNOW THAT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaker 7 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm still waiting on the legislation that gives the arsepca the right to seize goods for the purposes of an investigation?... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm still waiting on the legislation that gives the RSPCA the right to seize goods for the purposes of an investigation?... DONT WORRY THE PHONE WILL BE RED HOT AS WE SPEACK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
artic 595 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Gonetoearth, im no RSPCA officer, doesnt pay well....., however I have many friends in the law department. Friends, or colleagues? I'm pretty sure if the police had obtained a warrant to seize someone's goods they'd have been informed in a way much less subtly than finding an RSPCA card in the middle of a field. The police would thus also be carrying out the investigation, and the gent would have been told and had chance to defend himself free of charge. Sounds to me much more like the arsepca up to their usual tricks... nick 'em, run away, and throw money at it til the poor fecker on the receiving end drowns in debt and despair. The police would not investigate this matter,(not the police's remit)It's clearly the RSPCA's job to do so. I hope he gets them back and all is well. Warrants would not be left out in a middle of a field. They should be handed to a person, household member, or in a room for the occupier to see as and when. No need to ask Gonetoearth. no need to ask........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zap 4 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 hey steady lads lets not turn this into what or who artic is , this is about if what i am reading is right rspca holding people to ransom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaker 7 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 hey steady lads lets not turn this into what or who artic is , this is about if what i am reading is right rspca holding people to ransom The arsepca do it all the time mate, check out the Animadversion (Self Help Group) site for tons of examples. The arsepca have a conviction for perverting the course of justice, AND their top brass openly admits in court they break and enter and steal animals to fulfil their agenda. How they're allowed to operate, much less maintain royal patronage and charitable status, is a mystery. This is all a matter of public record. Although I've never raised the matter before, this is definitely not the first (or third) time Artic has been asked about his allegiances. He never seems to give a straight answer though, I think he likes the man of mystery lark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
artic 595 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 hey steady lads lets not turn this into what or who artic is , this is about if what i am reading is right rspca holding people to ransom The RSPCA do it all the time mate, check out the Animadversion (Self Help Group) site for tons of examples. The arsepca have a conviction for perverting the course of justice, AND their top brass openly admits in court they break and enter and steal animals to fulfil their agenda. How they're allowed to operate, much less maintain royal patronage and charitable status, is a mystery. This is all a matter of public record. Although I've never raised the matter before, this is definitely not the first (or third) time Artic has been asked about his allegiances. He never seems to give a straight answer though, I think he likes the man of mystery lark Im as straight as a die Rainmaker, some just dont like seeing a person treat people fairly! Man of mystery, i like that, now let me see....Oh the phone is ringing again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaker 7 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Im as straight as a die Rainmaker, some just dont like seeing a person treat people fairly! Man of mystery, i like that, now let me see....Oh the phone is ringing again! EDIT: Just to add artic, in the genuine spirit of enquiry... Regarding your earlier post... The courts wouldn't give a seizure warrant to the arsepca under any circumstances, as you yourself said it'd need to be a police officer. With that in mind, either (1) the OP is under police investigation which has reached warrant and seizure levels - and he'd have been presented with such by a constable upon the said seizure and had chance to defend himself, or else (2) the arsepca have done it again, and are full of their own shit as usual. There's no other way about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Toka 10 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 ....good to see some other posts but it still dont help the lad/lass who's horses are gone!!!! I think all the advice anyone can give has now been given, once Cannyboy has been in touch with Clive [or another solicitor and the help group] post up their advice and let us know where it is up to!!!! All the best with it, I think you have everyones sympathy on here as none of us would like to be treated like this! Good Luck, keep us posted!! ATB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Gonetoearth, im no RSPCA officer, doesnt pay well....., however I have many friends in the law department. Friends, or colleagues? I'm pretty sure if the police had obtained a warrant to seize someone's goods they'd have been informed in a way much less subtly than finding an RSPCA card in the middle of a field. The police would thus also be carrying out the investigation, and the gent would have been told and had chance to defend himself free of charge. Sounds to me much more like the arsepca up to their usual tricks... nick 'em, run away, and throw money at it til the poor fecker on the receiving end drowns in debt and despair. The police would not investigate this matter,(not the police's remit)It's clearly the RSPCA's job to do so. I hope he gets them back and all is well. Warrants would not be left out in a middle of a field. They should be handed to a person, household member, or in a room for the occupier to see as and when. No need to ask Gonetoearth. no need to ask........... my point exactly warrant has to be served not left , and excepted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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