IRELAND

[Dosser 52]

An exert from a newspaper article:

 

 

Short of Karzai-style stuffing of the ballot boxes, the European and Irish political establishments could scarcely have done more to push this second Irish referendum in the way they want. To ensure a "Yes" vote, all the normal rules governing balanced media coverage were suspended. The European Commission has poured €1.5 million into an unprecedented advertising blitz. EU commissioners, led by President Jose-Manuel Barroso, MEPs and officials have been flooding in to promote the cause. However, when one or two British outsiders – including Nigel Farage, leader of a group in the European Parliament, and Lorraine Mullally, director of the think-tank Open Europe, and of good Irish stock – came over to campaign for a "No" vote, their "foreign intervention" was greeted by orchestrated howls of abuse.

 

 

The question inevitably aroused by such startling behaviour is why has the political class of "Europe" been so desperate to get its way over this treaty? It was back in December 2001 that the EU's leaders met at Laeken in Belgium to agree that, to "bring Europe closer to its peoples" and to make it more "democratic", the EU should, like any aspiring state, be given a constitution. This was to be the consummation of the central driving force of the "European project" – the drive to place the nation states of Europe under an entirely new form of supra-national government. As long ago as 1957, the original Treaty of Rome put together what was always intended to be the embryo of a "government for Europe", as Jean Monnet put it.

 

Treaty by treaty, without most people recognising its true underlying agenda – and leaving the nation states and their institutions in place as if nothing too dramatic was happening – this new government gradually took over the powers of national parliaments. It already decides far more of our laws and how we are governed than any mainstream politician ever dares admit.

 

In 2001, however, the EU's leaders decided the moment had at last arrived for their project to come out in the open. It was ready to take its place on the world stage as a sovereign power in its own right, complete with president, foreign minister, currency, armed forces and all the attributes of a fully-fledged state. What was needed above all to mark this historic step was a constitution.

 

A puppet convention spent two years drafting the constitution they wanted, and in 2004, after a further year of bickering about details, it was unveiled – on the assumption that its acceptance by the peoples of Europe would be little more than a formality. But in 2005 the French and Dutch had the audacity to say "No". Faced with the most serious reverse the project had ever suffered, the EU's leaders went into catatonic shock.

 

Their eventual solution, of course, was simply to repackage the constitution as if it were just another of those treaties, ensuring that they would not repeat the mistake of allowing mere voters to turn it down. The only country under whose own constitution a referendum was unavoidable – because it would lose so much more of its power to govern itself – was little Ireland. And of course, in June last year, to the horror of the "European" political class, the Irish again said "No", pushing the constitution back into limbo.

 

This was simply not in the script. Inevitably the EU's leaders pulled out all the stops to ensure that the Irish were whipped into line. The stakes were too high to contemplate anything else. So next Thursday, those who now rule over us are trusting that, after eight tortuous years, they will at last be on the verge of getting the new state and form of government they have wanted all along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its not about economies or currencies, its about democracy and freedom.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

I wouldn't entirely disagree except for the fact we lost the run of ourselves and priced the country out of the world market. Education led to foreign direct investment and the likes of Intel setting up in Ireland, great. Then as more and more companies came here more people moved from the country side to the cities, the start of the building boom. As time went on people earned a little more, goods and services prices started to creep up. Then we had Bertie, the man who couldn't say no to anyone. Bertie and his cronies set in motion a thing that brought us to financial ruin on the back of a property bubble. Everyone had to have wage increases, because we were all entitled to it, weren't we? Sure we never had it so good. Bollocks. When wages are let go up and up and up and up while the country is building on economic quicksand it only took one thing to go wrong. Then we had sub prime in the USA. Ireland went KA-BOOM! And to be honest, rightly so, we lost the run of ourselves completely.

 

The punt, if it were still here would most definitely have been savaged by international currency speculators. Because Germany, France etc also has the Euro we're being protected from that happening. Why do you think Iceland want's in the EU all of a sudden? To protect themselves as much as they can.

 

Read up on why we had to devalue in the early nineties We'd be savaged today.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

An exert from a newspaper article:

 

Its not about economies or currencies, its about democracy and freedom.

 

And the newspaper is?

[RicW 67]

I wouldn't entirely disagree except for the fact we lost the run of ourselves and priced the country out of the world market. Education led to foreign direct investment and the likes of Intel setting up in Ireland, great. Then as more and more companies came here more people moved from the country side to the cities, the start of the building boom. As time went on people earned a little more, goods and services prices started to creep up. Then we had Bertie, the man who couldn't say no to anyone. Bertie and his cronies set in motion a thing that brought us to financial ruin on the back of a property bubble. Everyone had to have wage increases, because we were all entitled to it, weren't we? Sure we never had it so good. Bollocks. When wages are let go up and up and up and up while the country is building on economic quicksand it only took one thing to go wrong. Then we had sub prime in the USA. Ireland went KA-BOOM! And to be honest, rightly so, we lost the run of ourselves completely.

 

The punt, if it were still here would most definitely have been savaged by international currency speculators. Because Germany, France etc also has the Euro we're being protected from that happening. Why do you think Iceland want's in the EU all of a sudden? To protect themselves as much as they can.

 

Read up on why we had to devalue in the early nineties We'd be savaged today.

 

Zackly. The world has got a lot smaller over the last few years. Do youse guys want to be big fish in a very small pond? If you do then realise that the big pond next door is getting bigger and the little fish are gonna GET ET by the big yins. You may not like it but that's the way it works.

Ric

[Swampy 147]

An exert from a newspaper article:

 

Its not about economies or currencies, its about democracy and freedom.

 

And the newspaper is?

Read Dossers previous post. Its not often that I can fall totally on the side of Dosser but he got this one right!

 

Swampy

 

FrighteNING

[WILF 46,787]

Dont see why you have to explain yourself to anyone JG, its not the way I would have voted if indeed we had been lucky enough to have a vote but its your choice and thats what a free country is all about.......I dont agree with this just keep voting untill they get the right result business but never the less thats life.

 

Now, I dont belive that anything happens by accident and Ireland certainly seemed to get a lot of finacial encouragement from the EU, I also belive that all goverments will engineer the finacial markets in order to put a gun to the head of ordinary people so that they can progress with their grand political plans without the hassle of "the small man"

 

I hope the "NO" side of the argument wins for no other reason than we in Britain will be royally fecked if it dose not......what we have is shite, but at least I can vote for my own shite and to be ruled once again by that traitor to Britain Tony Blair will make me sick to my guts!

[Swampy 147]

I wouldn't entirely disagree except for the fact we lost the run of ourselves and priced the country out of the world market. Education led to foreign direct investment and the likes of Intel setting up in Ireland, great. Then as more and more companies came here more people moved from the country side to the cities, the start of the building boom. As time went on people earned a little more, goods and services prices started to creep up. Then we had Bertie, the man who couldn't say no to anyone. Bertie and his cronies set in motion a thing that brought us to financial ruin on the back of a property bubble. Everyone had to have wage increases, because we were all entitled to it, weren't we? Sure we never had it so good. Bollocks. When wages are let go up and up and up and up while the country is building on economic quicksand it only took one thing to go wrong. Then we had sub prime in the USA. Ireland went KA-BOOM! And to be honest, rightly so, we lost the run of ourselves completely.

 

The punt, if it were still here would most definitely have been savaged by international currency speculators. Because Germany, France etc also has the Euro we're being protected from that happening. Why do you think Iceland want's in the EU all of a sudden? To protect themselves as much as they can.

 

Read up on why we had to devalue in the early nineties We'd be savaged today.

By the currency speculators in europe who want a european bureaucracy!

Talk about being beaten into submission!

This was Irelands chance to show themselves for what they really are.

I hope they haven't thrown that chance away

 

Ningingathenrye

[JohnGalway 1,043]

Dont see why you have to explain yourself to anyone JG, its not the way I would have voted if indeed we had been lucky enough to have a vote but its your choice and thats what a free country is all about.......I dont agree with this just keep voting untill they get the right result business but never the less thats life.

 

Now, I dont belive that anything happens by accident and Ireland certainly seemed to get a lot of finacial encouragement from the EU, I also belive that all goverments will engineer the finacial markets in order to put a gun to the head of ordinary people so that they can progress with their grand political plans without the hassle of "the small man"

 

I hope the "NO" side of the argument wins for no other reason than we in Britain will be royally fecked if it dose not......what we have is shite, but at least I can vote for my own shite and to be ruled once again by that traitor to Britain Tony Blair will make me sick to my guts!

 

It's a bit of craic Wilf

 

I agree with you that everyone should have had the right to vote on it. But that's not happened and other countries are butting in where they shouldn't.

 

I'll mirror that position, how well would it go down for several Irish sponsored "groups" to appear in the UK say a year before an election agitation for a Labour vote? Why Labour, well because historically the Conservatives haven't exactly been the friendliest UK party towards Ireland. Anyway, it would not go down at all well I'm thinking.

 

As for the previous newspaper post. There's an awful lot wrong with it that I've already commented on. One thing, about EU funding. WHERE DOES DECLAN GANLEY get his moeny then? Hmmmm? Bag of cookies for whomever answers that one

[JohnGalway 1,043]

By the currency speculators in europe who want a european bureaucracy!

Talk about being beaten into submission!

This was Irelands chance to show themselves for what they really are.

I hope they haven't thrown that chance away

 

Ningingathenrye

 

Mostly just by greedy people out to make a fast buck on the misery of others

[WILF 46,787]

It's a bit of craic Wilf

 

I agree with you that everyone should have had the right to vote on it. But that's not happened and other countries are butting in where they shouldn't.

 

I'll mirror that position, how well would it go down for several Irish sponsored "groups" to appear in the UK say a year before an election agitation for a Labour vote? Why Labour, well because historically the Conservatives haven't exactly been the friendliest UK party towards Ireland. Anyway, it would not go down at all well I'm thinking.

 

As for the previous newspaper post. There's an awful lot wrong with it that I've already commented on. One thing, about EU funding. WHERE DOES DECLAN GANLEY get his moeny then? Hmmmm? Bag of cookies for whomever answers that one

 

Very true pal.........I agree with you totally on that one.

 

A bit of criac for you mate, at least you Irish fellas will get to feck us over once and for all

 

ATB,

W

[Swampy 147]

It's a bit of craic Wilf

 

I agree with you that everyone should have had the right to vote on it. But that's not happened and other countries are butting in where they shouldn't.

 

I'll mirror that position, how well would it go down for several Irish sponsored "groups" to appear in the UK say a year before an election agitation for a Labour vote? Why Labour, well because historically the Conservatives haven't exactly been the friendliest UK party towards Ireland. Anyway, it would not go down at all well I'm thinking.

 

As for the previous newspaper post. There's an awful lot wrong with it that I've already commented on. One thing, about EU funding. WHERE DOES DECLAN GANLEY get his moeny then? Hmmmm? Bag of cookies for whomever answers that one

 

Very true pal.........I agree with you totally on that one.

 

A bit of criac for you mate, at least you Irish fellas will get to feck us over once and for all

 

ATB,

W

 

The mirrored position that you talk of is somewhat distorted by the fact that this is not about one countries election its about the future of us all.

To raise past problems between our two countries could be called by some as "cutting your nose off to spite your face"

This thing is bigger than anything we've had to deal with before.

I think that Eire is extremely lucky to have this vote. i wish we had the opportunity as PROMISED by Tony B Liar.

The Anglo/Irish issue goes back hundreds of years and is far too complex for my two brain cells to understand.

The one brain cell left taht hasn't been affected (yet) by cider is screaming don't let ths bereaucratic machine take us over. The Anglo/Irish issues will pale into insignificance if it does.

 

Respectful Rgds

 

Swampy

 

 

Trying not to ning melodramatically

[JohnGalway 1,043]

What's this ning craic?

 

If positions were reversed, Ireland would not come into Joe Public in the UK's consideration.

 

All politics is local

 

There's a very low turnout last I heard.

Edited October 2, 2009 by JohnGalway

[Malt 379]

What's this ning craic?

 

If positions were reversed, Ireland would not come into Joe Public in the UK's consideration.

Not strictly true John, at least not all over the UK. We Celts don't forget our brethren, even if they do talk with a funny accent, drink black beer & believe in leprechauns...

[border lad 1,047]

What's this ning craic?

 

If positions were reversed, Ireland would not come into Joe Public in the UK's consideration.

Not strictly true John, at least not all over the UK. We Celts don't forget our brethren, even if they do talk with a funny accent, drink black beer & believe in leprechauns...

 

I think most of you are missing the point, the yes vote will hopefully, bring a more united EUROPE, AS WE ALL KNOW IS VIRTUALY IMPOSSIBLE, TAKE

SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, in the past we in SCOTLAND were always, being dealt the short straw, the guinea, pigs, any new rules and regulations, yes we again, the short, straw, and if THE UK, HAD BEEN IN THE EURO, currency, the business world would have been able to trade much easier, but as I said in a previous post on here that will not happen for the foreseeable future, you have to live in Ireland to realy understand the situation, and all the advantages, that Ireland, HAS RECIEVED FROM BEING A MEMBER OF THE ECC, and the most precious, one was peace, with its neighbour only through the strength, of BRUSSELS, (((( AS FOR LEPRECHAUNS, AND THE WEE PEOPLE, all the folk back there, will tell you, that funny things do happen without any explanation, but wee the believers, do know,

[JohnGalway 1,043]

What's this ning craic?

 

If positions were reversed, Ireland would not come into Joe Public in the UK's consideration.

Not strictly true John, at least not all over the UK. We Celts don't forget our brethren, even if they do talk with a funny accent, drink black beer & believe in leprechauns...

 

Maybe not strictly true Malt, but generally true. If Blair was Irish, if Ireland was the Euro skeptic and not the UK and so forth

 

Thankfully, from my point of view, dissatisfaction with our Gubberment didn't cock it up. Opposition leaders on the radio today were saying the biggest hurdle they had to cross was convincing their supporters to vote along with that shower.