Inconsistent Loads!!! HELP PLEASE

[steveff1353 7]

Hi Guys and Gals

 

I'm new to reloading, started within the last month. First attempt went very well (well i was pleased) this was the results from my first attempt:

 

All using Lapua Brass, Federal Primers and Varget topped with 65Gr Hornaday Vmax (5 round groups @100m)

 

35.1gr - 1.44 inches

35.6gr - 0.77 inches

36.5gr - 1.3 inches

37.8gr - 0.9 inches

38.5gr - 0.72 inches (chosen load)

38.9gr - 0.8 inches

39.5gr - 1.2 inches

41.4gr - 1.3 inches

 

now to the second attempt. not so good. all loaded to 38.5gr everything was the same except i used Layman case lube pad, i also lubed inside the case neck this time (didnt before) i had problems getting the powder inside it was sticking to the lube!!!

the resulting groups were all over the place.

should i just fire this whole batch off and put it down to "too much lube"?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Steve

[jamie g 17]

Hi Guys and Gals

 

I'm new to reloading, started within the last month. First attempt went very well (well i was pleased) this was the results from my first attempt:

 

All using Lapua Brass, Federal Primers and Varget topped with 65Gr Hornaday Vmax (5 round groups @100m)

 

35.1gr - 1.44 inches

35.6gr - 0.77 inches

36.5gr - 1.3 inches

37.8gr - 0.9 inches

38.5gr - 0.72 inches (chosen load)

38.9gr - 0.8 inches

39.5gr - 1.2 inches

41.4gr - 1.3 inches

 

now to the second attempt. not so good. all loaded to 38.5gr everything was the same except i used Layman case lube pad, i also lubed inside the case neck this time (didnt before) i had problems getting the powder inside it was sticking to the lube!!!

the resulting groups were all over the place.

should i just fire this whole batch off and put it down to "too much lube"?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Steve

 

ypu dont need to lube inside the neck mate. i got the redding lube its abit like vaseline in a little tube. you only need a dab and i mean a dab on the case neck. to stop it sticking in the die. when resizeing

 

soon as there done wipe it all off and your away

[jamie g 17]

Hi Guys and Gals

 

I'm new to reloading, started within the last month. First attempt went very well (well i was pleased) this was the results from my first attempt:

 

All using Lapua Brass, Federal Primers and Varget topped with 65Gr Hornaday Vmax (5 round groups @100m)

 

35.1gr - 1.44 inches

35.6gr - 0.77 inches

36.5gr - 1.3 inches

37.8gr - 0.9 inches

38.5gr - 0.72 inches (chosen load)

38.9gr - 0.8 inches

39.5gr - 1.2 inches

41.4gr - 1.3 inches

 

now to the second attempt. not so good. all loaded to 38.5gr everything was the same except i used Layman case lube pad, i also lubed inside the case neck this time (didnt before) i had problems getting the powder inside it was sticking to the lube!!!

the resulting groups were all over the place.

should i just fire this whole batch off and put it down to "too much lube"?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Steve

 

ypu dont need to lube inside the neck mate. i got the redding lube its abit like vaseline in a little tube. you only need a dab and i mean a dab on the case neck. to stop it sticking in the die. when resizeing

 

soon as there done wipe it off and your away

 

as for firing them all off just pull the bullets with a bullet hammer. see what the powder is like inside. if its all sticky from the lube then get rid of that powder dont but it back in your big tub

[steveff1353 7]

Hi Guys and Gals

 

I'm new to reloading, started within the last month. First attempt went very well (well i was pleased) this was the results from my first attempt:

 

All using Lapua Brass, Federal Primers and Varget topped with 65Gr Hornaday Vmax (5 round groups @100m)

 

35.1gr - 1.44 inches

35.6gr - 0.77 inches

36.5gr - 1.3 inches

37.8gr - 0.9 inches

38.5gr - 0.72 inches (chosen load)

38.9gr - 0.8 inches

39.5gr - 1.2 inches

41.4gr - 1.3 inches

 

now to the second attempt. not so good. all loaded to 38.5gr everything was the same except i used Layman case lube pad, i also lubed inside the case neck this time (didnt before) i had problems getting the powder inside it was sticking to the lube!!!

the resulting groups were all over the place.

should i just fire this whole batch off and put it down to "too much lube"?

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Steve

 

ypu dont need to lube inside the neck mate. i got the redding lube its abit like vaseline in a little tube. you only need a dab and i mean a dab on the case neck. to stop it sticking in the die. when resizeing

 

soon as there done wipe it off and your away

 

as for firing them all off just pull the bullets with a bullet hammer. see what the powder is like inside. if its all sticky from the lube then get rid of that powder dont but it back in your big tub

 

Thanks for the advice mate, if the powder was sticky would that effect the consistency ?

[Mr_Logic 5]

Yes, any powder clumping will affect the burn.

 

You can lube the inside of the case neck, but if you do then you're going to need a full clean on the cases again before loading. Brass needs to be clean, dry and free of lube before you load, or you will have no end of grief.

[dicehorn 38]

I have reloaded thousands of rounds both for myself and four other rifle users. I have NEVER lubed the inside of the neck - whoever told you to do that?

 

Once you have fired formed your cases, technically you should be then neck sizing only - no lube needed anywhere. Before you put the cases through your die get a stiff nylon brush and run it through the neck a few times to remove any burnt powder.

 

Looking at your weights of powder, what is your COL or OAL? Assuming you are using a 243, you can probably tighten your groups by playing about with COL or OAL.

[SNAP SHOT 194]

just also to add...

 

 

the lubing of the inside of the case neck will, lead to inconsistant burn rates of the powder....

 

 

Also the neck tension of the bullets will all be different...... due to the lube and this will cause accuracy problems too....

 

 

never lube the inside of the neck.....

 

 

ATB.

[coldweld 65]

Only someone with little experience would lube inside the neck. Now you have discovered the reason why !

 

Good luck with your next batch !

[Mr_Logic 5]

Personally I don't lube the inside of the neck, but you certainly CAN do it - just a quick Google shows people doing it all the time with no adverse effects.

 

I see it adding time and being a pain anyway, so I don't.

[steveff1353 7]

Thanks all for your replys.

 

Ok so I get the no lube inside the neck, it does explain the poor grouping after the last batch.

I discovered the lubeing inside the neck on the rcbs website under videos. Gives a ful demo of the reloading process, which included lubeing inside the neck.

I measured my col with a case cut to the shoulder with a bullet in it, loaded it into the chamber that gave me a measurement of 2.283 so I sent my die to 2.273. Is that right?

Like I said I was happy with first reload, would liked them to be a little tighter though.

 

Thanks all for your help. Much appreciated.

[dicehorn 38]

I measured my col with a case cut to the shoulder with a bullet in it, loaded it into the chamber that gave me a measurement of 2.283 so I sent my die to 2.273. Is that right?

Like I said I was happy with first reload, would liked them to be a little tighter though.

 

Look - dont get hung up about your bullet heads being close to the lands at 10 thou off - alot of reloaders will tell you that's where you should be. I say rubbish - unless you have a match barrel. Most reloaders who have bog standard rifles never get to realize the potential of their rifle because they are fixated on this 10 - 20 thou business off the lands. My bog standard Remmy 22.250 will group sub .2 and my 22.250 in R93 will group .17 - where are they seated? - 137 and 132 thou off the lands. My 6.5 easily sub .25 is seated 222 thou back - three of my friends 6.5's range from 180 down to 120 thou back and I can tell you they wont change - they like myself are only limited by our own abilities with the rifle.

 

A guy on another forum read what I said about my 22.250's - experimented and put up a scan of his target which he was amazed at and he settled at 135 thou off. There are some that will say "so what, mine will group 3/4" at hundred which is a dead fox - yes I agree however take on a fox at 450 to 500 yds and you will be amazed how that 3/4" opens up at those ranges - still a dead fox or one with a front leg shot off?

 

Peter

[HUnter_zero 58]

Ok so I get the no lube inside the neck, it does explain the poor grouping after the last batch.

 

There is nothing wrong with lubing the case neck as long as you don't go over the top with the amount of lube. Case neck tension holds the bullet and plays an important part in powder ignition and uniformed powder ignition. The load you describe will achieve 95-97% powder burn. There are many other factors that could give inconsistent grouping, I suspect that the lube had only a small part to play. Grouping may seem like the be all and end all of load testing, but due to the many factors involved only a small proportion of that feedback it gives relates to how well your reloads are performing. You really need to chronograph your reloads to see how different reloading techniques effect the final round. Any way to lube, if you have a tight neck and a thin copper jacket, squeezing the bullet in to the neck can damage the jacket and cause poor results down range. I tend to resize/decap, clean the primer pockets, cut the case length. Clean the cases with both tumbler and ultra-sonic cleaner (I'm a case tart), then flush the cases in a solvent. When dry, I'll batch my cases in to relevant and like weights. Now, I'm not one for 43.78 grain of powder, IMHO it makes no difference in the hunting rifle, I would load 44 grains dead (example). So, I'd prime, charge and then rub a small and I mean small amount of lube on the bullet base, almost none can be seen or felt, just to help the bullet in to the case.

Press the bullet home, give the round a wipe and I'm done.

I spend more time choosing my reloading components, than I do thinking about COL, neck tension, pocket uniforming, neck run out etc.

You may or may not have had too much lube on the case neck, I doubt too much would have been that big an issue as you would not have got the powder in to the case. Any amount of lube will hold powder, hence the reason I lube the bullet but most lubes will dry in time.

With out knowing the velocities of the rounds it's hard to fault find but I would suggest that you load up a batch of five with no lube, five with the case neck lubed and five with the bullet base lubed and go and test the rounds.

 

John

Edited September 15, 2009 by HUnter_zero

[steveff1353 7]

Thanks again all for your advice and guidance. just loaded another batch. soon as i get the chance to fire a few test groups i'll post the results.

 

Steve

[steveff1353 7]

Hi guys

 

Just fired 6 x 5 round groups (no lube inside the neck) and all around .5inch edge to edge. one thing bothered me to start with was the first 5 shots were all over the place (4inch group) then 2nd to the 6th group tightened up to around .5inch, the odd loose shot (human error!!)

 

Any opinions on the first group?

 

Thanks

[HUnter_zero 58]

Hi guys

 

Just fired 6 x 5 round groups (no lube inside the neck) and all around .5inch edge to edge. one thing bothered me to start with was the first 5 shots were all over the place (4inch group) then 2nd to the 6th group tightened up to around .5inch, the odd loose shot (human error!!)

 

Any opinions on the first group?

 

Thanks

 

As per BBS, did you clean your barrel? Was there oil in your barrel?

 

John