just starting out info please

[kev1986 0]

i understand but i am thinking more if it bounces of something etc not just shooting into fresh air sorry i should of explained

[jamie g 17]

i understand but i am thinking more if it bounces of something etc not just shooting into fresh air sorry i should of explained

 

i see mate. it will go pretty far. but then again your be surprized what a bush does. i see something on the net ages back and they did a test. and only so many rounds from a 223 past through this thick bush

[waidmann 105]

once again i stand corrected( forgot to square).

i think the gist was there though

i must say that i find the .17 a good fox caliber( range and target ballistics) but as i said in a previous post these things leave room for discussion.

good to see the chaps know their onions.

atb

p.s. i would not rely on even a thick bush as a stop.

Edited September 14, 2009 by waidmann

[paulus 26]

food for thought here we have all read the distances printed on bullet packaging. but if you think about it, say your standing shooting at a fox. if your on average 6 feet tall then unless its a particually tall fox, your aiming downwards, so even with a miss the backstop is the ground around it. now lets say you were sitting down shooting at the same fox then things become differant because of the change of shot angle, but now bullet drop comes into play. if you were shooting even in a strieght line without a backstop on a 13 inch bipod with say a 22.250 using winchester 55 balistic silvertip rounds with the zero set 2.3 inch high at 100 yards then the round would hit the ground before it got to 400 yards as the buttet drop would be15.9 inches at the 400 yard point. so whot im trying to say is, knowing a bit about your chosen calibres performance/ballistic capabilities with differant ammo is as important to safe shooting as reading the safe distances printed on the box. i.e dangerous to x amount of miles or kilometers.

[kev1986 0]

how much should i be looking to pay for a gun safe and what are the legal requirments its just i have been looking around and some dnt look like they very safe at all but still saying bs and police aproved , i have read they have to be attached to solid wall but what about the thickness of the safe and the lock does it have to be say 5 points or 7 etc and also the ammo safe inside the gun safe does this hae to be to a certain standard

[Mr_Logic 5]

Safe needs to be to British standards, and bolted to a solid wall, and/or concrete floor.

 

Regarding safety, Paulus remind me not to go shooting near you! yes, the bullet will hit the deck, and with careful thought you're OK. BUT, and it's a very very very big but - if you shoot off a prone bipod even slightly uphill, that bullet can go for a thousand yards easily! Even when you shoot 1,000 yard, muzzles are not at 30 degrees or anything to get the bullet that far!

[jamie g 17]

once again i stand corrected( forgot to square).

i think the gist was there though

i must say that i find the .17 a good fox caliber( range and target ballistics) but as i said in a previous post these things leave room for discussion.

good to see the chaps know their onions.

atb

p.s. i would not rely on even a thick bush as a stop.

 

mate i didnt say rely on a bush i said you would be surprized how if you see the video what one can stop

[waidmann 105]

at the evd of the day no matter what our stop is it has to be relied uponto stop a bullet which COULD be a danger to others.

i.e when shooting prone at a fox is noy only the angle of entry( target and ground) to be considered but also the surface likely to be hit( sand,shale,peat,rubble,concrete,ice,water/wetland etc). angle steeper than 15 degrees cause disintergration MOSTLY.

the target entry angle is by no means the same angle the projectile leaves the target( bone hit etc).

this can flatten the angle the projectile hits the ground causing it to be deflected upwards( furthering the danger zone,at an angle which cannot be predicted. although 30-40 degrees should be reckonned with hence the huge danger zones on military ranges)

 

the best angle balisticly for distance is around 30-35 degrees for that reason i mentioned it( ,22lr and solid shot UP TO 1.5 km. centerfire up to 5 k.m

and pellets from air guns uo to 300m data from helmut kinsky)

 

with shotguns the distance of danger is 1mm shot=100m ie 3.5mm shot = 350 meters danger zone

[jamie g 17]

at the evd of the day no matter what our stop is it has to be relied uponto stop a bullet which COULD be a danger to others.

i.e when shooting prone at a fox is noy only the angle of entry( target and ground) to be considered but also the surface likely to be hit( sand,shale,peat,rubble,concrete,ice,water/wetland etc). angle steeper than 15 degrees cause disintergration MOSTLY.

the target entry angle is by no means the same angle the projectile leaves the target( bone hit etc).

this can flatten the angle the projectile hits the ground causing it to be deflected upwards( furthering the danger zone,at an angle which cannot be predicted. although 30-40 degrees should be reckonned with hence the huge danger zones on military ranges)

 

the best angle balisticly for distance is around 30-35 degrees for that reason i mentioned it( ,22lr and solid shot UP TO 1.5 km. centerfire up to 5 k.m

and pellets from air guns uo to 300m data from helmut kinsky)

 

with shotguns the distance of danger is 1mm shot=100m ie 3.5mm shot = 350 meters danger zone

 

thats why i like shooting from jeep it gives you a safe angle of fire on back of 4x4 roof

Edited September 15, 2009 by jamie g

[waidmann 105]

any elevated position is of advantage.

ladder seats,highseats etc.

the longer the range the flatter the angle=higher risk of "bouncing up".

water logged ground and ice are often underestimated when shooting ground game( rifle and shotgun),the angles of refraction can be astounding( vertical and lateral) sends a shiver seeing people do it. a shot which is normally deemed as safe sends leaves falling at near right angle( a placed gun on a hare drive, very wet patch/flooded to around 4-6 inches).

we all hear horror stories, most caused through careless shooting. lacking knowledge of the ground shot over( paths behind hedges,woods taken as "deep",) even falling shot can cause people to become upset( " the hunter was shooting a us today").

we cant be too carefull, better to over estimate danger( possibility of) than hurt someone/something wrongly( on this point the .22 lr is often highly underestimated as a known "richochet caliber")

[waidmann 105]

you can make the safe yourself. a min of 2mm plate/sheet steel. must have two"good quality" locks( got mine from e-bay. "gun safe lock" 7 lever locks)

it must have anti jemmy folding around the doors and for firearms a seperate locking safe( for bolt and ammo) this can but must not be part of the cabinet. weld all joints that couldn't be folded.

you will run the risk of the firearms officer saying " nope". if you have someone with the gear it works out cheaper for a seven guncabinet than for a 2 gun from the shop. you can also buy them from e-bay for good prices( often too far to be worth it!)

 

i had mine made and it has been accepted by my fao.( i have a step where it has to go,and could see no other way around fixing it securley)

probably best off buying a second hand one mate( try the wanted section on here. may be lucky)

 

atb

[Deker 3,478]

If you want a Cabinet take a look at these, if there is anything you fancy let me know and I'll give you the best price I can do...I'll need to know proximity you want it delivered so I can quote delivered price!

 

http://www.djsproducts.com/

[RicW 67]

hi all i have been shooting with air rifles for quite a few years and went away from the sport for some time and now am interested in getting my fac and am looking at which rifle people reccomend and pro and cons of each caliber along with if any pro and cons with rim and centre fire

thanks

kev

 

Kev -

I may have the wrong impression here, if I have then I apologise. From some of your posts you seem to think that HMR is a lower powered round than 22lr. It is, obviously, smaller calibre, but it is a LOT more powerful. The difference is not like that between .177 and .22 air. Think rather in terms of a sub-12 22 and a big PCP 177, say 50 ft.lbs. If you are talking to your FEO about calibres then you need to make clear that you understand the difference between "calibre" and "power". I'm sorry if I'm stating the bleedin' obvious but you wouldn't be the first to miss this when you go from air to powder-burners.

RicW

[willum 89]

hi all i have been shooting with air rifles for quite a few years and went away from the sport for some time and now am interested in getting my fac and am looking at which rifle people reccomend and pro and cons of each caliber along with if any pro and cons with rim and centre fire

thanks

kev

 

Kev -

I may have the wrong impression here, if I have then I apologise. From some of your posts you seem to think that HMR is a lower powered round than 22lr. It is, obviously, smaller calibre, but it is a LOT more powerful. The difference is not like that between .177 and .22 air. Think rather in terms of a sub-12 22 and a big PCP 177, say 50 ft.lbs. If you are talking to your FEO about calibres then you need to make clear that you understand the difference between "calibre" and "power". I'm sorry if I'm stating the bleedin' obvious but you wouldn't be the first to miss this when you go from air to powder-burners.

RicW

in reply to the original post what calibre help needed on getting started and how much.calibre all depends really on how much you are going to use the gun as .17 hmr rounds are alot more expensive than .22lr if range is a problem then the .17 would be the one for you but they are a little less acurate on a breezy night. you would be expecting to pay about 380 pluss for a average.22lr and prob a hundered pound or so more for .17hmr a moderator will prob set you back about 50-60 quidfor .22lr. cabinet is around 90-130 quid but you will have to have either a seperate cabinet for your amo unless your safe has an inbuilt one and a scope from 60 quid upwards. if you are intending to shoot muntjac then you will need a centre fire rifle with a minimum calibre of .220 plus the f/o would want to know what previous experiance you have had in the way of centre fire rifels. hope this all helps and all the best in macking your choice and happy hunting.

[paulus 26]

Safe needs to be to British standards, and bolted to a solid wall, and/or concrete floor.

 

Regarding safety, Paulus remind me not to go shooting near you! yes, the bullet will hit the deck, and with careful thought you're OK. BUT, and it's a very very very big but - if you shoot off a prone bipod even slightly uphill, that bullet can go for a thousand yards easily! Even when you shoot 1,000 yard, muzzles are not at 30 degrees or anything to get the bullet that far!

[/q

 

i say again its not about whots wrote on boxs or ballistics calculations its about experiance like i said no your weopon and round and this can only be gained from experiance. ill keep quiet now as theres far to many experts on here for my limited experiance!!!!