just starting out info please

[kev1986 0]

hi all i have been shooting with air rifles for quite a few years and went away from the sport for some time and now am interested in getting my fac and am looking at which rifle people reccomend and pro and cons of each caliber along with if any pro and cons with rim and centre fire

thanks

kev

[Mr_Logic 5]

WHat do you want to shoot with it? Each tool has its use!

[waidmann 105]

for rabbits short range( 50-60 yds) the .22 rf is very quiet with a moderator is the tool for the job.

at longer range( after 100yds) the .17 hmr is still very accurate.if you apply for fox( as i was told by my fo you should apply forr 17 or more.home office would reccomend abigger caliber) and you can take fox and bunnys at quite some distance.

 

if shooting rabbit on foot or out of a jeep i'd take the .22 rf

if longer range needed the.17

 

the .22 is cheaper to shoot, quieter with moderator.does tend to richochet.

the .17 has more power,accurate at distance 100m +

as mentioned each tool has its job.

 

apply for both if you have the need( as i was recommended by my firearms officer).

the choice of caliber was once explained to me by an old rifle nut as follows: "as much as needed,as little as possible"

 

i chose a cz in .22rf for a start( 16 inch barrel,sak mod,simmons white tail scopex50mm) bolt action. (fast enough,safe enough,accurate and not too expensive).

[kev1986 0]

it was mainly for rabbits but i do have quite a few muntjack around my area so prob could do with something a bit bigger at what distance will both cals travel its just i am thinking of back drop etc and suitible places i can shoot as i have a lot of permission but some is within a mile or so of houses and some is near a few country lanes again about a mile could some one give me the name of a good starting gun along with scope etc cabinet

cheers

kev

[Mr_Logic 5]

Most forces don't routinely allow 17HMR for fox. Instead they start with 22 Hornet really, although 22 Magnum would be enough.

 

Kev I suggest you do some digging on the web, a rabbit gun and a muntjac gun aren't going to be the same calibre. Minimum for muntjac is a .222 realistically; rabbits are well dealt with by 17HMR or .22RF.

 

Regarding suitability of 17HMR for fox, it's a piddly little round which is best suited to rabbits. It can kill foxes cleanly at close range with a body shot, or 120 yards with a head shot. Some people have pushed it to more, but they're experienced shooters, good shots and in generally good conditions. I would rather use 22LR on them tbh, while being lower powered it puts a bloody great lump of lead where it's not supposed to be - penetration is never lacking and the odds of a non-fatal wound are IMHO lower. If a 17HMR doesn't expand properly then the little bullet is not exactly devastating. Fine on a bunny, less so on a fox. My advice if shooting foxes would be to avoid!

 

Therefore, given your muntjac, if I were you I would apply for 22LR, 17HMR (both for bunnies) and .223 for fox and munties.

[waidmann 105]

being true that the .17 is a smaller bullet,physics tells us that speedxmass= energy

the.17 will travel much faster and therefore bring more energy to the target( limited by the resistance ballisticly)

 

the .22rf is capable of traveling a huge distance ( "danger zone" at 32 degrees from the ground is about 5km!) so you cannot shoot at all with no stop.the .17 will obviously travel further.

 

this question has been on here a few times( indeed i asked it myself) and causes the opinions to flow on in.a good thing if you are after info.

horses for courses mate.

[kev1986 0]

so ideally for my quarry etc i should be looking at a .17hmr what is the max ranges with this cal for rabbits and what price range should i be looking at and what is average price of ammo sorry for all qs i just trying to weigh it all up and get a rough idea on price for everything

cheers

kev

[Mr_Logic 5]

being true that the .17 is a smaller bullet,physics tells us that speedxmass= energy

the.17 will travel much faster and therefore bring more energy to the target( limited by the resistance ballisticly)

 

the .22rf is capable of traveling a huge distance ( "danger zone" at 32 degrees from the ground is about 5km!) so you cannot shoot at all with no stop.the .17 will obviously travel further.

 

this question has been on here a few times( indeed i asked it myself) and causes the opinions to flow on in.a good thing if you are after info.

horses for courses mate.

You have missed one key point of terminal ballistics, stopping power. If you take a projectile travelling with great speed and therefore energy, you need to ensure swift energy transfer to the target. This is what expanding ammunition is all about; slowing down the bullet as fast as possible to ensure maximum energy transfer to the target.

 

Polymer tip bullets are a bit of a special case because as the velocity slows, the expansion is significantly curbed because the polymer tip fails to act as a wedge. Below a certain impact velocity (IIRC 1600 ft/sec) this fails to happen reliably which means that bullet starts to behave like an FMJ, and that means very little expansion and energy transfer to the target, which means a small hole straight through it.

 

22RF, being a slow, heavy lump of lead, doesn't have this problem. Because the soft lead deforms at low velocities, with the right hollow point you get a pretty good mushroom on a fox even at 100 yards or more.

 

However, neither bullet is particularly humane. IMHO the 22 bullet is more likely to create a wound which is lethal, even it it takes a minute or two. At longer ranges HMR can easily create a wound incapable of killing the animal, since it actually sends less energy into the fox.

 

Of course, at closer ranges the reverse is true - HMR lands with a good thump because the bullet travels fast enough for the polymer tip to work properly, and initiate fragmentation. So long as it penetrates correctly (usually does in my experience) then old Charlie has a serious problem.

 

Either way though, I stand by opinion that HMR ain't a mainstream fox tool. WMR is much better if you must use a rimfire. More muzzle energy and considerably heavier bullet mean better long range performance, even though the energy figures say HMR should work at longer distances.

[Deker 3,478]

being true that the .17 is a smaller bullet,physics tells us that speedxmass= energy

the.17 will travel much faster and therefore bring more energy to the target( limited by the resistance ballisticly)

 

the .22rf is capable of traveling a huge distance ( "danger zone" at 32 degrees from the ground is about 5km!) so you cannot shoot at all with no stop.the .17 will obviously travel further.

 

this question has been on here a few times( indeed i asked it myself) and causes the opinions to flow on in.a good thing if you are after info.

horses for courses mate.

 

 

1. The principle of what you say is correct but ignores terminal ballistic effect and WASTED energy.

Bringing energy to the target and imparting that energy into the target are 2 very different things

 

2. If we assume by .22rf you mean .22lr, you will be very hard pressed to make any round, fired at any angle, go much further than about 3km, a .22wmr on a good day will make it a little further but only to about 4km at very best with a strong tail wind ...and the .17hmr with 17g ammo, will only travel a little further than the .22lr, as it does not carry it's energy well over LONG distances!

 

ATB!

[waidmann 105]

that a .22lr may not travel 5km is clear to me ( this is a range given while training for the german hunting licence) maybe i should have said "maximum danger zone".

i did put that the principle was " limited balisticly" meaning exactly the point of "wasted energy".

if anything i wrote seems incorrect then i stand corrected.

the point being that for me the .22 was the optimal caliber. and that this decision must be made by the individual suiting his ground and quarry.

as with all caliber questions there is plenty of room for discussion and thats good so. every man an opinion.

good to be picked up on such things in a civilised manner.

hope the choice is made easier for you mate.

atb

[Deker 3,478]

that a .22lr may not travel 5km is clear to me ( this is a range given while training for the german hunting licence) maybe i should have said "maximum danger zone".

i did put that the principle was " limited balisticly" meaning exactly the point of "wasted energy".

if anything i wrote seems incorrect then i stand corrected.

the point being that for me the .22 was the optimal caliber. and that this decision must be made by the individual suiting his ground and quarry.

as with all caliber questions there is plenty of room for discussion and thats good so. every man an opinion.

good to be picked up on such things in a civilised manner.

hope the choice is made easier for you mate.

atb

 

[jamie g 17]

22rf and 17 hmr will be more then you need for rabbits. as for max distance 100 yards with 22 lr if you no the drop and i would say 150 with hmr. some say more but its afected by wind to much over that distance i think to be relieble at that range.

 

those are the distance i think these rifles will perform at but of course in the real world the max distance is what you are good at. and we all owe it to what we are shooting at not to injurie it if possble. there for only take shots you no you can pull off. once you have had more pratice then you can try on targets and then once sure take longer shots at rabbits.

 

if you want fox then 223 would be best or 22/250 and then you can have munjac on that to. weather your get centrefire 1st grant only your flo will tell. if it was me get the hmr and 22lr at 1st. and then see how you go. if you need a hand with the forms let us no

[RicW 67]

hi all i have been shooting with air rifles for quite a few years and went away from the sport for some time and now am interested in getting my fac and am looking at which rifle people reccomend and pro and cons of each caliber along with if any pro and cons with rim and centre fire

thanks

kev

 

Just for the record physics does NOT tell us that energy equals masstimes speed. Newton's Third law tells us that e=mv². The kinetic energy carried by a projectile is proportional to to the mass of the projectile and to the square of the velocity. Not that Kev gives a monkey's and why should he?

Ric

[kev1986 0]

its not so much how far away i can drop something but more of a safty question to as how far the round will travel if not hitting backdrop most of my quarry is going to be under 100yds so i think a .22lr would suit me fine i am going to keep doin as much research as possible before i jump into things and get written permission from the farmers i have permission from and then go from there what sort of price am i looking for ammo for a .22lr and is there a trajectory loop as in air rifles or is it vitually flat

[jamie g 17]

its not so much how far away i can drop something but more of a safty question to as how far the round will travel if not hitting backdrop most of my quarry is going to be under 100yds so i think a .22lr would suit me fine i am going to keep doin as much research as possible before i jump into things and get written permission from the farmers i have permission from and then go from there what sort of price am i looking for ammo for a .22lr and is there a trajectory loop as in air rifles or is it vitually flat

 

the key to it is the bullet isnt going to travel far if you dont hit the back stop because you wont be firing if there isnt a back stop

 

have a good read up on google mate. put the different calibers in and it will tell you all you need to no