would you buy a second hand rifle?

[langouroux 14]

Hi guys,

 

well the question is simple, but i doubt the answer is going to be!

 

in a nut shell i cant afford a new rifle as i went self emloyed this year, and it wasnt the smartest thing to do in the middle of a resession! hahaha

 

so what want to know is this:

 

who has bought second hand, and all has been well, you liked the rifle, it shot well, etc?

 

who has bought second hand and got a duff one?

 

mr logic i would appreciate your comments on this one.

[Dan_Smiff 2]

I bought my Steyr 243 earlier this year second hand from the local RFD – it’s not in perfect nick but it shoots bang on and came with a P8 mod (as new), a half decent scope and a harris bipod so for me it was the perfect package – would have been well over double if I’d bought new and I just couldn’t stretch my budget.

 

If you buy on the condition that you’ll be bringing it back if it doesn’t shoot straight then you can’t really go wrong - IMO

[SNAP SHOT 194]

alright mate,

 

i've bought the tikka m595 i have second hand... its shot 1/2" groups for ages.... BUT

 

i did know the round count, and shot with the rifle a good few times....

 

So i knew the performance i was getting before i bought.... i still have it all be it in fancier clothes....hehe

 

so the answer your question this is what i would look for......

 

 

A good clean well looked after rifle...

 

accurate round count...

 

was it used in shooting targets or hunting only or both....!!!

 

Why this question, because if it was used mainly on targets barrel wear would be higher....... due to the nature of the sport..

 

 

test fire of the rifle before you buy,

 

and if possible get the barrel bore scoped...... just to make sure of no major issues...

 

this will also help to see what condition the barrel is really in, and how long you could expect good accuracy for...!!!

 

 

ATB.

 

 

Snap.

[langouroux 14]

cheers snap good advice.

 

the reason i ask, is because i have just put a small deposit on a rifle at sportsman gun centre exeter, its a full set up, looks like its half decent etc, i have spent alot of money in there before and they knwo me, they will take it back if it doesnt shoot ok, and all rifles new or second hand come with 1 year guarantee. If i decide i dont want it they will transfer the deposit to another rifle, so i didnt see why not!

 

wooohooo! gone get me a new gun! well an old/new gun anyway!

[HUnter_zero 58]

who has bought second hand, and all has been well, you liked the rifle, it shot well, etc?

 

 

It depends on a few things. What calibre rifle your after has to be the main deciding factor. For example a .22rf barrel being shot out are easy to spot and rare. So, a good .22rf will be easy to find second hand as I can testify and most of my mates can testify. In the auctions, a .22rf can be purchased for as little as £5. Chances are the rifle will shoot fine, but has been stored in an RFD safe for the last twenty years.

If your after a hot calibre, such as the Swift then you need to think and look before you buy. Chances are there will be excessive throat erosion etc.

A .308 light weight stalking rifle such as the Parker Hale Midland will not have seen much action but may be rusted in hard to reach places, a .308 Target rifle will be in good nick but may well be shotout, equaly .17 in top nick, might have been tendered by a chap who didn't like the calibre but might also been on the rack due to ware or accuracy issues due to being shot out.

 

Next is the type of rifle, for example if you want a top of the range in vogue rifle, then so will everyone else. If there is a second hand rifle, for cheap money then you have to be very suspicious as to why.

Lever actions will tend to have a hard life than a single shot falling block rifle, so a .22rf sporterized single shot rifle is likely to be very accurate and have little or no ware but be very cheap to buy as the rifles are no longer in vogue.

 

Then it's where you buy the rifle from, for example and RFD is unlikely to test fire the rifle, so if the rifle looks goods and all seems fine then it's on the rack, you take your chances and suck it and see but may also have the chance to test before you buy!

A friend/member of a club is next up, chances are you will know the honest and real reason they are selling the rifle, make your own mind up!

Off the Internet, may have some uses but the last rifle I purchased mail order was a Savage .22rf from Uttings (?) and what a mistake that was. First time and Last time and that was a time ago.

 

Auctions, there is good and bad in the auctions. Some rifles are there to be outed, some from estate sales, some that an RFD can not be bothered to sell or they have too many of the same rifles. The reasons are many but as long as you know your rifles, this is the place to pick up cheap guns.

For example, a purchased a .308 P-H which had had major work carried out on the trigger, barrel bedded and a few other bits done. The bore was 99% perfect and the gamble paid off, the rifles produces MOA. My mate purchased one of the same, in first class condition as new for £60, the rifle shoots 2" groups at 100 yards which would be about rifle for such rifles in factory condition. Another mate, purchased a Pro-Hunter MK2 with rings and bases and T8 can, all brand new. Took it up the range and the rifle clover leafs, cost £550.

 

Don't forget, most if not all rifle manufactures only guarantee limited accuracy with their rifles, so a second hand .223 producing 1" groups is as good as a new rifle with just the same level of guaranteed accuracy.

 

What ever you do, take a small torch to check the barrel out, check the crown as well! Cycle the bolt, use snap caps to test the firing mech. If you can, take the action of of the stock, look for rust! is the barrel straight? Old rifles, can be repaired and made accurate for bladders but missing scope blocks and mounts can cost the earth!

 

 

John

[langouroux 14]

hunter zero thanks you very much mate, there is some good info there, thans for taking the effort of such a large write up, much appreciated.

 

the gun is a:

 

cz/brno model 525 1969 .308 its mounted with a 10 x 50 ( think!?) hakko scope illuminated for £300

[jamie g 17]

just get the barrel checked if you dont no history of the rifle

[HUnter_zero 58]

hunter zero thanks you very much mate, there is some good info there, thans for taking the effort of such a large write up, much appreciated.

 

the gun is a:

 

cz/brno model 525 1969 .308 its mounted with a 10 x 50 ( think!?) hakko scope illuminated for £300

 

 

Dare I say it but CZ is basically a budget rifle, good but still budget. Okay so what are we dealing with here. You need to really look at the over all condition, is it aesthetically good, whats the bluing like? Rifling? Crown? Has the rifle had any work done to it? Barrel bedded? Whats the recoil lug like? and area on the stock where the recoil lug fits? Any stock damage / repairs? Lets presume that all is okay and top notch, Auction price for such a rifle is around £ - £120 dependant on how much money is in the room and how many people are after .308 rifles on the day (never many). The Hakko scope, will it hold zero? One thing I would never do is let a scope rule the purchase of a rifle, second hand scopes are IMHO worthless, no one in their right mind is going to let a top notch scope go, they will need it for the next rifle. Don't get me wrong, the Hakko scope is a very good scope as long as it's an older model, top class Jap optics. A quick glance at Gun trader shows more modern BRNO .308 ZKK 601 Bolt Action Rifle with a nice stock, scope and mounts. I would guess with haggling the rifle would be sold for £340 to £360. Would I pay £300, no not when I could buy a Remington 700 ADL for around £450.

The only advice I can honestly give, is that the mounts would be worth more to me than the Hakko scope, the rifle would be worth £150 to me at the most with the mounts adding another £15 to £20 and that is if the rifle comes up to par with regards to the above.

To my mind, with £300 to spend I'd be phoning Andrew in Rifle craft and asking if or when will he have any Ex-Police / MOD rifles back and seeing what deal I could do with him. There are so many little tricks and things people do with guns to sell them, like polishing shotgun bores with white wax to hide pitting etc. just be a little careful with what you are buying and make sure what you buy is well worth the effort. I speak from experience, I have owned and sold many rifles, even purchased rifles at auction and sold them at Litt's on the way back home for a profit.

 

(PM replied to)

 

 

John

[waidmann 105]

i have had hakko hunter 7x50 scope. check its tight and not got vaseline on the threads( check it by putting it in the freezer and then at room temp if it mists up get rid of it. a real pain unlees you only want it for dry weather without temp differences.

 

shouldn't be a problem but best off checking before you take it out in the rain.( easy if the scope has twist in mounts).

other than this the scope i had was ok and i used it for a couple of years on my 30.06 spr.shot like the devil.

[Spangle 0]

My 22-250 was a second hand Remington 700 ADL, I gave £350 for it and had no idea how many rounds had been through it, I took a gamble and it paid off as that rifle lasted me a good few years and was very accurate for a factory rifle.

[Mr_Logic 5]

HUnter Zero and I are in total agreement, for once

 

I would echo pretty much everything he said, and I wouldn't touch that aged CZ with a barge pole. A second hand scope is near worthless. You've no way to check that it actually works, not even get a good idea beforehand, so basically I'd leave it unless it's something like a Schmidt, Swaro or Zeiss, that you can get fixed if it's not right.

 

Next we come to the rifle... Agricultural, are CZ's. There's nothing wrong with that, I own 2. I had the CZ550 in 308 which I just sold, nothing wrong with it but I didn't get on with the balance etc, and tbh I wouldn't recommend the CZ550 Standard. the American has a bit more wood so better grip and better balance, so that would have been better.

 

I think CZ may be where you get to, or Parker Hale or someone like that. Personally, I'd save for a bit and put a bit more money in, say £300 for the rifle + a scope. And I wouldn't rush the purchase. Check out Guntrader, check out gun shops - with a second hand buy you need to find the One rifle you really like and has things going for it. Once they are second hand they aren't created equal! And remember if you hang tight for a bit you can get a new Howa which has been cut for about £500. That'll see you right for many a long year.

 

I don't have anything against second hand rifles, my Ruger VT in 308 was secondhand, as was my Hornet. Both came from Chris Orasinski in Kent. He's a gunsmith, and did the Hornet's barrel for me ahead of time (chopped and cut) to make a very nice handling rifle. I also had some reassurance that he could fix most things, and would have had a good look at the rifles in question.

 

Both guns shoot straight. I have decided I don't like the Ruger because once wearing a bipod and scope it's not really a good fit to get comfy and shoot it really well. Luckily my other half does like it

 

So have a look see, and don't get something BECAUSE it's cheap. If you like it and it HAPPENS to be cheap, brilliant! Better to get the right rifle and have an unhappy bank manager for a month or two - buy cheap, buy twice!

[Deker 3,478]

Buying second hand is always a gamble if you do not know the full history of a rifle...I have known several people sell rifles because it was a dog...someone ended up buying it.

 

Simple fact is a good RFD will take a gun back if you have a problem, but it can be hastle.

 

Buy second hand and expect something not quite right...as long as it shoots straight most can live with that.

 

Barrels on CF are a potential problem, not so much with rimfire.

 

Just do your best to check everything and get assurances from the RFD he will take it back if it doesn't work...I have known several to have problems with brand new guns, so nothing is perfect.

[coldweld 65]

Nothing wrong with S/hand !

Had 3 .303 SMLE 90 years old great fun shot 2'' group 100m open sights

.22-250 about 5 years old shot sub 1/2 '' 100m

Now have .260 4 years old shoots sub 1/2 100m

[Outdoor_Jo 0]

Well, I don’t wish to go against the general run of opinion here, most of what I’ve read sounds like damned good advice to me.

However, here’s my story....

 

When I first started working in a gun shop, my boss would occasionally buy job lots at auction just to get one or two items he was really after, the left overs would be put on the rack and sold off for dirt cheap money.

 

Part of my initial duties was to dust all the rifles in the racks so I did get to know these duffers quite well. Out of about 60 of these there was one that I just kept going back to, something about it caught my attention. Bear in mind that at this time I was a hand gunner, never really had much interest in rifles or shotguns. Most of my range time was spent practicing for UKPSA competitions or giving tuition to new club members.

 

Anyway, eventually my boss said to me, ‘that rifle you keep looking at, bring it over’ he stripped it, scrubbed it and bore scoped it. Not only was the rifling as sharp as a new gun, the whole thing was pristine. The gun was a sport manufactured .303 Mouser with a military action ca 1933.

 

Yep I know, I never saw one before or since and this was 25 years ago. It cleaned up really nicely, the woodwork looked superb, the blueing was spotless and for me it hefted perfectly. Cost to me? £60.00 which is what it was on the rack for. Downside? With standard factory ammo it shot like an absolute pig, I couldn’t get a group down to less that 6†at 100m. At first I thought it was me due to not having shot rifle before, so the boss had a go, and this guy could shoot trust me .... same result.

 

I was soooo disappointed as the gun was perfect for me in every way and I’d fallen in love with it. Well give the guy his due, he wasn’t about to give up, like me I think he’d seen the potential in the rifle. So, he sat himself down at the reloading press and the experiment started, long story short, 125grn Speer 30cal soft point bullet, (designed for the AK) 25 grains of Reloader 12 and bingo, that baby was shooting ½ groups at 100m. And at that load, that round came out of there like a meteor, and what it hit, didn’t get up.

 

Moral of the story? If it feels good, if something clicks and you know it’s right, don’t give up. That beautiful little rifle gave me years and years of pleasure, kept my freezer stocked with venison, got me into rifle shooting, stalking and reloading. Since then I have never bought / owned a ‘new’ rifle and have never bought a pup.

 

Nothing wrong with second hand mate, just take heed of the advice others have given on here and you’ll do just fine.

 

All the best

Jo

Edited September 2, 2009 by Outdoor_Jo

[langouroux 14]

cheers jo, all amazing advice, im gonna go and see the rifle shortly, if i dont like it i will swap the deposit to a new tikka i think! it'll brake me financialy but f*ck it enough is enough, i have my dsc booked for november and i need to crack on...looks like i'll be selling some surfboards!