Sterry 0 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I've been looking out for some non toxic shot for my 12bore since moving up from my 20bore, the problem is that my gun is an English one. (this is where im baffeled) I understand that very few english can have steel put through them, not all that fussed as i think steel is crap anyway. But, i have been looking at hevi shot which i know work well, that said i have been reading up and apparently it is very hard...just like steel...So can i use hevi shot in my gun or not, i dont know how you find out if its steel proofed. my guns choked 1/4 and 1/2. thanks if anyone can sort me out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest john5 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I've been looking out for some non toxic shot for my 12bore since moving up from my 20bore, the problem is that my gun is an English one. (this is where im baffeled) I understand that very few english can have steel put through them, not all that fussed as i think steel is crap anyway. But, i have been looking at hevi shot which i know work well, that said i have been reading up and apparently it is very hard...just like steel...So can i use hevi shot in my gun or not, i dont know how you find out if its steel proofed. my guns choked 1/4 and 1/2. thanks if anyone can sort me out yeh you can use it ! , but your barrels will look like a PTO shaft soon after ,or why dont you try ITM shot (iron tungston matrix) , still harder than lead but if you use plastic wads you will be o.k , or there is "power shot" (if you can find it) and lastly there is bismuth which is PILE OF SHITE ,cost a fortune and over half is lost before it leaves the muzzle through dissintergration , i have settled on ITM but somebody will have something else to say Edited August 25, 2009 by john5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
woollyback 0 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 No I wouldnt, I think its only bismuth you can put throught non steel proofed barrels, but just check. I would make sure your just has the adequate proof marks on the bottom of the barrels, make sure it ways steel proof before you put any hevi shot through it. I use Hevi and its really good, hope your guns able to use it. woollyback Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sterry 0 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 When i go to the gunshop i'll take the gun in as well for them to check the proof marks, i hope i can use hevi shot too, used it once in a friends gun, really impressed. if i have to use bismuth im not too fussed thats what i used in the 20 for ducks as non-toxic for that was extorsionatly expensive...one £41.50 for a box of 10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tom1cameron 1 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The question here is not of proof marks alone...but the age of your gun Steel proof only comes from the chamber pressure and lack of sightings of any damage from "one" over-pressurised steel cart fired down the barrel Older barrels made from softer steel will suffer from harder shot, even with a plastic wad First of all...you aint used steel but you think it is crap...Hmmm I and others shoot loads of steel rounds on duck and geese without any issues...indeed I would say that I think more about what I am shootingand at what range now than I did in the lead era and hence I have less wounding losses. But you can only use Standard steel loads in your gun....not the High Performance ones. Second....if you choose not to use steel then you can use Bismuth and I think ITM as well without restrictions (check with Gamebore or BASC directly not your Gunsmith as in my experience most dont know much about non-lead ammo). Bismuth is great on Ducks within reasonable ranges but I never found it to be effective in larger shot sizes (mainly cos I could never find any in stock). Finally, Hevishot Classic Doubles might bet the thing for you which is designed for older sporting guns but I am not sure if it is being loaded by the UK stockist (Lyalvale), speak to them directly. Overall my recommendation would be to leave the English gun in the cabinet and invest in a steel proofed gun for wildfowl hunting, a second hand semi is probably the most practical (£300 new for an Escort semi) or...most recent O/U come as 3" chambered steel proof (£500sh). Lead-free is the future so you might as well invest now! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sterry 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I have used steel in my trusty but very "agricultural" baikal, for my fishery and even close in i had real problem killing them out right, one had an obvious hole in it head bleeding but was still flapping around on the water. My gun is circa 1986, i was only told i couldnt use steel because its an English made gun. I dont supose you know what pressure is ok to use? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest john5 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 te he he , confused ? , well just pay your money and take yer chance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fellamilad 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 sounds like your just shooting wildfowl inland and most non toxic will cope with that i use steel through modern autos. in my opinion i would stick with itm or bismuth in any fixed choke gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
woollyback 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Steel will kill very well at sensible ranges, I shot 3 geese at reasonable distances last season with some 3 1/2 mammoth steel. A good bit of advice with steel I've read; always pick 1-2 shot sizes larger than you would usually use, this compensates for the lighter steel load - eg. If you usually use 5's for duck, use 3's or 4's in steel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sterry 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Steel will kill very well at sensible ranges, I shot 3 geese at reasonable distances last season with some 3 1/2 mammoth steel. A good bit of advice with steel I've read; always pick 1-2 shot sizes larger than you would usually use, this compensates for the lighter steel load - eg. If you usually use 5's for duck, use 3's or 4's in steel. That may be so. But, my gun doesnt have 3 1/2" chambers, it has 2 3/4. Also, im not sure i can put steel through my barrels as yet, so for geese putting size 3s or 2s through 1/2 choke seems bit much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tom1cameron 1 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 1/2 choke is fine up to 4mm steel, then there are some concerns in older foxed choked guns. All the pressure info for steel proofing is available from the BPH, BASC and usually online or from gunsmiths. There are lots of suitable 70mm steel rounds. Shot size is far more important than large pellet counts. A 32-34 gram load of 3.6mm steel will kill all ducks at various ranges. Smaller shot is more suitable if you are mainly hunting at closer ranges or smaller ducks. But for reference, if you meant to hit the cormorant in the head then you want to think about a different steel pellet size than if you are aiming to hit the lower neck/upper body area. Unfortunately these variable are important. Also, a head shot is not always a dead bird, it has nothing to do with the steel mate...it is always nice to have excuses when shooting...but that steel is crap aint one of them It may help you if you do some digging on the net on articles by Tom Roster and also, if you are a member, call on BASC research for help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sterry 0 Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 after speaking to a gunsmith, i ended up with some express hevi-shot 2 3/4 super game in no 3 (3.2mm). should be good to see how they work.. I'll keep you posted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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