border terrier for stud

[steviemann 5]

thanks for the offer mate but im sure my missus is happy enought if i ever need a hand i may take you up on your offer

 

Well!!! IMO you deserved it!!!

You wouldn't want my big fat fingers round it, I make myself feel inadequate Stick to your wife's small hands.

I would only produce from a terrier that had proved itself as a WORKER for several seasons.

There are far too many dogs out there already without breeding from an untried pup, irrespctive of his undropped testi. Why beed and produce pups just to try his good en?

It is of course your dog, you do and please yourself how you wish. This is my opinion and by reading the last 5 pages most others too.

Good luck with the wife thing, mine complains when I ask

[COMPO 54]

working ability is the be all end all thats why u have all the show shit you will never see a donkey winning the grand nationall

 

 

please re-read my entire post..........Working ability is the main reason we should be breeding from.............but we must also try and improve the health as well as teh working abaility for the next generation!

 

There is no point breeding a cracking worker thats going to get cancer and die because of a retained testicle....when we can breed a cracking worker thats not!

 

and retained testicles are more common in show dogs!

[Bryan 1,362]

the only standard is the standard of work, when the pup has passed that you should think about breeding or not.

undescended testes is common in kids FFs and an easy surgical repair, that pup can be restored by any reasonable vet.

 

Lance Armstrong only has one ball, but he seems physically sound, with a good standard of work and has a few kids, should he not be bred from?

[steviemann 5]

the only standard is the standard of work, when the pup has passed that you should think about breeding or not.

undescended testes is common in kids FFs and an easy surgical repair, that pup can be restored by any reasonable vet.

 

Lance Armstrong only has one ball, but he seems physically sound, with a good standard of work and has a few kids, should he not be bred from?

 

 

Didn't he have cancer of the testis?

[donnyc 1,203]

Just a load of balls I say

[COMPO 54]

the only standard is the standard of work, when the pup has passed that you should think about breeding or not.

undescended testes is common in kids FFs and an easy surgical repair, that pup can be restored by any reasonable vet.

 

Lance Armstrong only has one ball, but he seems physically sound, with a good standard of work and has a few kids, should he not be bred from?

 

 

he lost his testicle to cancer, it had descended correctly in teh first place!

 

 

and you cant compare people to dogs.....otherwise we end up in the realms of the facists......their ideals about geneaology and types of people was actually a mis-quoted scientist who thought we could improve the next generation of people by compulsarly sterising thick people and those with illnesses ....and only the most pyshically fit and intelligent humans should actually have children (it was then twisted to include ethnic groups) thus in a few centuries of selectively breeding ourselves the human race would be fitter,stronger and with increased intellect........basically sensible breeding ideals that we should follow with animals.......animals are different

[Bryan 1,362]

the only standard is the standard of work, when the pup has passed that you should think about breeding or not.

undescended testes is common in kids FFs and an easy surgical repair, that pup can be restored by any reasonable vet.

 

Lance Armstrong only has one ball, but he seems physically sound, with a good standard of work and has a few kids, should he not be bred from?

 

 

he lost his testicle to cancer, it had descended correctly in teh first place!

 

 

and you cant compare people to dogs.....otherwise we end up in the realms of the facists......their ideals about geneaology and types of people was actually a mis-quoted scientist who thought we could improve the next generation of people by compulsarly sterising thick people and those with illnesses ....and only the most pyshically fit and intelligent humans should actually have children (it was then twisted to include ethnic groups) thus in a few centuries of selectively breeding ourselves the human race would be fitter,stronger and with increased intellect........basically sensible breeding ideals that we should follow with animals.......animals are different

 

But cancer is genetic and hereditary,only more serious than an undescended teste,

i think you can compare animals to humans without being a fascist, most human medicine is tested on animals so there has to be something to it

[Bosun11 537]

If your dog has a retained testicle it has an inherited genetic condition and regardless of how good looking, well bred, fantastic working or showing it may be it should NOT be bred from! You are condemning the next generation to the same genetic problem! If that testicle remains retained you should get it removed as it may well go cancerous and if strangulated can kill your dog.

 

 

some breeds take longer than others for the nuts to descend........be careful when taking a pup for its first jabs as the vet if they cant find both will tell you all about this condition and the dangers (which are real as Dawn states above) and try and get the mutts nuts off before he has had chance to let them descend........My dog has both proudly swinging in his sacks! however on his first visit to teh vets one wasn't quiet there....vet starts going on about all teh above (this is a small 8 week old puppy) and saying I will have to book him in for castration! I think the vet saw it as an opportunity to make some extra ££££££££££££££££ and when i said but he is only 8 weeks old? the vet realised i was questioning him and said "yes he is young....he still has time for it to descend!" (dont always blindly believe the vet!)

 

Anyway i left it and a week after his second jab it finally descended correctly by itself............I dont know how quick they should drop but have heard that different dog breeds/types take different amounts of time.....my dog took about 10-11 weeks for it to descend........I think that you should say it they aren't there by about 6 months then it needs doing .for the dogs health and to prevent it passing it on and causing more dogs to have the problem!

 

Working ability is not the be all and end all...............[/b]it is the primary function of a working dog but we must also try and breed dogs as healthy and long living as possible ..................so a dog at 1 year old with 1 nut shouldn't be bred from anyway

 

Sorry Compo but I've got to disagree, form should always follow function and thats why Border terriers, in the main, are in the state they are in

[Dawn B 212]

Sorry Compo but I've got to disagree, form should always follow function and thats why Border terriers, in the main, are in the state they are in

What state? the breed is in no such "state" you have issues with people owning them as pets and showing them, such is life Im afraid, there is a damn sight more Patts, Fells, Russells etc at Terrier "shows" than there is Borders, dont cha know!

 

Please explain what "state" means in this instance.

[reg1234 0]

i aiso have a border that looks a belter hes 18 months , to me he hasent proven himself in the dark so untill then he wont prove himself to a bitch

[waidmann 105]

i'm afraid the point is getting lost.

 

some seem to think that peformance should come first. a working dog should be bred from( irrespective of health and form/standard)

if that be the case why have a standard for a BREED of dog?

becaus if we did not we would have no specific breed at all would we? we would have working dogs with misformed skeletal build up(including teeth), long tails, etc etc but they would fit in a set and work like the devil for a couple of years (untill heart problems,hip displacia,eye disorders,hereditry deafness etc took their toll and he died of natural causes)

these are problems i think it is in everyones interest to avoid, by this i do not mean kc standards(euthenasia/arian selection as mentioned above) but common bloody sense!

a dog must prove himself at his task over an acceptable amount of seasons, be in an excellant condition( physicly and mentaly!!!) and then,and only then can it even be considered to line him with a bitch of suitable breeding and ability. this is the process of selective breeding which has given us some brilliant working dogs of a sustainable class,form and temperament.

if you want to work any old dog no matter what, no problem.

maybe these chaps would be so kind as to start their own club? maybe even another thread " absolute workers of mixed breeds dont give a toss whether of standard or healthy heritage or not" try that in the for sale section?

i hope the next time i wish to buy a terrier i can look upon these posts to make a choice of breeder/bloodlines.

 

as churchill said: those who choose to agree with me i congratulate on their good sense. those who do not i hope that they regain good health soon.

[COMPO 54]

Just to clarify my view point.

 

a dog should only be bred from when it has proven itself in what ever field of work you have chosen for it.

 

a terrier should work fox , a hound should draw cover a lurcher should run and catch its game etc!

 

 

 

But Form will only Follow function if we pick the healthiest workers and avoid naturally recurring illnesses and conditions. If the dog is not healthy it shouldn't be used for breeding no matter how good a worker it is or has been.

 

 

So a dog with an undescended testicle may be healthy and the best worker you have ....however if he passes this on to his offspring and they all develop issues and die....whats the point?

 

 

And when i mean compare people to animals, you cant when it comes to having young, people have free choice and free will and make their own decisions on whether to procreate or not. Animals we are their guardians and as such we have to make the decisions on their behalf, we decide what and when they breed with and we decide if that animal is worthy of breeding from in teh first place.........all stockmen whether they are pigeon fanciers, goldfish breeders, rabbit breeders, ferret breeders/keepers or the huntsman with 40 couple of hounds try and improve on what animals they have got.........with working animals that means improve their working ability by putting the best to teh best and hoping for the best........and within teh best that means the best of health as well as teh best worker

[waidmann 105]

at least good sense prevails with us two

compo seems a dog man with a bit of common and a HEALTHY view of breeding direction/selection.

[Northsider 9]

Sorry Compo but I've got to disagree, form should always follow function and thats why Border terriers, in the main, are in the state they are in

What state? the breed is in no such "state" you have issues with people owning them as pets and showing them, such is life Im afraid, there is a damn sight more Patts, Fells, Russells etc at Terrier "shows" than there is Borders, dont cha know!

 

Please explain what "state" means in this instance.

dawn do u work ur borders on fox just a question as iv seen them at shows

[steviemann 5]

Just to clarify my view point.

 

a dog should only be bred from when it has proven itself in what ever field of work you have chosen for it.

 

a terrier should work fox , a hound should draw cover a lurcher should run and catch its game etc!

 

 

 

But Form will only Follow function if we pick the healthiest workers and avoid naturally recurring illnesses and conditions. If the dog is not healthy it shouldn't be used for breeding no matter how good a worker it is or has been.

 

 

So a dog with an undescended testicle may be healthy and the best worker you have ....however if he passes this on to his offspring and they all develop issues and die....whats the point?

 

 

And when i mean compare people to animals, you cant when it comes to having young, people have free choice and free will and make their own decisions on whether to procreate or not. Animals we are their guardians and as such we have to make the decisions on their behalf, we decide what and when they breed with and we decide if that animal is worthy of breeding from in teh first place.........all stockmen whether they are pigeon fanciers, goldfish breeders, rabbit breeders, ferret breeders/keepers or the huntsman with 40 couple of hounds try and improve on what animals they have got.........with working animals that means improve their working ability by putting the best to teh best and hoping for the best........and within teh best that means the best of health as well as teh best worker