Springer Field Trial - next week

[welshboy454 3]

welshboy do you work a spanial or are you reasurching the breed beforebuying.

I had my first spaniel at 14 years old - I have had 4 altogether and the current one is the best- the dog of my lifetime certainly. All had ft lines but his is exceptional.

My shooting involves wildfowling on the marsh, a pheasant syndicate and loads of rough shooting -pigeon woodcock rabbit.

So does this mean you are not happy with any dog that gets its ft tickets in england /scotland but you are happy with a winner from wales what im saying is the gene pool aint that big so any winner you come accross will have a ftch in its ped from all over the country . and if you have a dog that does it for you and its a peddegree than its been produced by selection.

Have pm Hily.

My concern is that just like the banking crisis which nobody forsaw our dogs could be subjected to a genetic disaster if the system for producing FTCH does not have enough controls to ensure the correct strategic direction of the breed is maintained.

It is highly leveraged (just like the banks were) and a stud ftch can have a long term influence on the breed. Some have sired over a thousand pups.

Just imagine what would happen if a flaw in a dogs makeup went unnoticed.

Does anybody share these concerns ? or are we happy to let the ticking time bomb be !

[jessdale 416]

welshboy do you work a spanial or are you reasurching the breed beforebuying.

I had my first spaniel at 14 years old - I have had 4 altogether and the current one is the best- the dog of my lifetime certainly. All had ft lines but his is exceptional.

My shooting involves wildfowling on the marsh, a pheasant syndicate and loads of rough shooting -pigeon woodcock rabbit.

So does this mean you are not happy with any dog that gets its ft tickets in england /scotland but you are happy with a winner from wales what im saying is the gene pool aint that big so any winner you come accross will have a ftch in its ped from all over the country . and if you have a dog that does it for you and its a peddegree than its been produced by selection.

Have pm Hily.

My concern is that just like the banking crisis which nobody forsaw our dogs could be subjected to a genetic disaster if the system for producing FTCH does not have enough controls to ensure the correct strategic direction of the breed is maintained.

It is highly leveraged (just like the banks were) and a stud ftch can have a long term influence on the breed. Some have sired over a thousand pups.

Just imagine what would happen if a flaw in a dogs makeup went unnoticed.

Does anybody share these concerns ? or are we happy to let the ticking time bomb be !

I wonder if some of the FTCH in your dogs pedigree won a trial on "soft" ground?

[swamp rat 0]

popular sire syndrome is the name your looking for. its something that needs to be discussed cos over use of certain dogs ftch or no ftch if they have under lying problems can only be bad for the breed.

[welshboy454 3]

popular sire syndrome is the name your looking for. its something that needs to be discussed cos over use of certain dogs ftch or no ftch if they have under lying problems can only be bad for the breed.

Thank you Swamp rat. It does need to be discussed as the gene pool could become polluted and take years to overcome..

 

Jessdale - Who knows ? but think -why is there such an increase in the number of springers without papers- it is common down here and it seems from the topic answers growing elsewhere as well.

The underlying opinion (rightly or wrongly) is that " field trials don't mean anything"(not an opinion I share I should add) - "they don't test stamina and a lot are held on 'soft ground'.

 

I have personally seen a dog regularly carried back after an hour /hour and a half. That dogs daughter suffers the same.

 

I say lets have the debate objectively and try not to to get too sensitive about it .

 

If we do not debate it who will ? - Not the kennel club- look what they have allowed in the show breeds- bulldogs only born by ceasarian as an example.

[rickyspringer 15]

this has turned into a very interesting subject, some great replies...

 

I believe that certain sires are being used far to much, surely it can not be good for the breed we need diversity.

 

I also believe that true bramble bashers are a dying breed, I have heard on a number of occasions of dogs not being able to hit the heaviest of cover with gusto, I don't think this would of been the case years ago.

 

And also regarding the stamina of certain dogs that is also a great point, i raised this subject on "Gamekeeper or Trialler bred" I personally think alot of trialling bred dogs can't manage a full day, some will don't get me wrong. But I have heard on a number of occasions of these trialling bred dogs being carried off from a days work... I also know many old shooting men/Gamekeepers which will not touch certain lines due to them not being able to do a good hard days work.

[poacher3161 1,766]

I had this problem [bANNED TEXT] looking for a sire 5 years ago the most well known dog was chewky wolf whos owner i know but have not seen for years.My other option was a choise of two dogs whose parents were bred in wales and had a lot of gwibernant in their peddigrees .They were solid grafting dogs with a very easy handling demeanor i am now glad i chose the latter to line my bitch as the reports back i am getting are very encouraging.If a had a choise between a ftc or a solid grafting that was worked hard and was a good dog to line a bitch i would choose the latter everytime.atvb dell

[jessdale 416]

I had this problem [bANNED TEXT] looking for a sire 5 years ago the most well known dog was chewky wolf whos owner i know but have not seen for years.My other option was a choise of two dogs whose parents were bred in wales and had a lot of gwibernant in their peddigrees .They were solid grafting dogs with a very easy handling demeanor i am now glad i chose the latter to line my bitch as the reports back i am getting are very encouraging.If a had a choise between a ftc or a solid grafting that was worked hard and was a good dog to line a bitch i would choose the latter everytime.atvb dell

The Gwibernant kennel,owned by the late Keith Erlandson,were a very succesfull field trial line.

[rickyspringer 15]

It was a very sucessful trialling line, there is many, but I think the point of the matter is that there is a difference in the lines now, lines nowadays have been tweaked for trialling, that is the aim for many of the big kennels now. They improve one attribute and they may cause a fall in another...

[welshboy454 3]

It was a very sucessful trialling line, there is many, but I think the point of the matter is that there is a difference in the lines now, lines nowadays have been tweaked for trialling, that is the aim for many of the big kennels now. They improve one attribute and they may cause a fall in another...

Keith Erlandsons era went back to the late 1950's when rabbits were nearly extinct. He was a man who experienced the change in trialling over his lifetime and commented accordingly. He warned in 1995 about the system of trials using bunnies on soft ground leading to undesirable outcomes.

Nobody really listened but the ability of the internet to stimulate debate was not available to him - now guys what have you got to say.

This is your chance your dogs your future sport.

[poacher3161 1,766]

I had this problem [bANNED TEXT] looking for a sire 5 years ago the most well known dog was chewky wolf whos owner i know but have not seen for years.My other option was a choise of two dogs whose parents were bred in wales and had a lot of gwibernant in their peddigrees .They were solid grafting dogs with a very easy handling demeanor i am now glad i chose the latter to line my bitch as the reports back i am getting are very encouraging.If a had a choise between a ftc or a solid grafting that was worked hard and was a good dog to line a bitch i would choose the latter everytime.atvb dell

The Gwibernant kennel,owned by the late Keith Erlandson,were a very succesfull field trial line.

That i am very aware off as i have both his EXELLENT books.A gamekeeper freind whose boss told him money was no object in buying in the best bloodlines available after having spaniels of some of these bloodlines and finding they wernt to his taste got one off me and his more than happy with it due to how easy it was to train in the time available to the busy job of a single handed keeper.Though i must admit my spaniels would never be stylish enough to win a trial.atvb dell

[hily 379]

if you buy a pup because you like the ability of its parents but it does not have any papers then you don't know how the the parents where bred ! so do you propose to ignore the breading that has gone before and start up a list of only hard going dogs as you know a bitch can throw all kinds of pups can breeding alone produce hard goers or has training a hand in it .I think it could be a combination of both for instance you can put a pup of by hunting it in stinging nettles to soon but if that same pup has had experience flushing bunnys in softer cover then it will go straight into nettles for chance of a flush without thinking about it also the use of rabbit pens can be over done the dog is happy going into man made cover to find many flushes but out in the field it gets dishartend when not finding a flush at every turn .My idea of a spanial is it should be forever the optimist and also be a little dim so that it goese into cover without thinking about the outcome as a old horse breaker told me if the nag has to much brain it will stop to see whats on the othe side of the hedge befor jumping .Of coures this is only my take on this atb.

[jessdale 416]

I know a dog which is entered into this test, he is currently a ftw and the owner believes he may be in contention of winning this one, I do not believe that its a problem with there not being an abudance of thick cover, these dogs aren't trained to just compete in this type of trial, they have to be verstaile... So theoretically these dogs in this trial will definitely be able to smash heavy cover.

 

Ricky

Did he win the trial?

[rickyspringer 15]

will make some contact with him and let you know.

[darren m 1]

damn missed this -- do you know of any other trials coming up

[welshboy454 3]

damn missed this -- do you know of any other trials coming up

Follow this link

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/4...trialsdiary.pdf