The Working Border Terrier Club

[Marcos 44]

Good on you P&S I'm happy to join and be the australian rep!!! lol

I got your book the other day a very enjoyable read and a table top quality book as well, I paid for it and didnt have to but wanted to see the book and make my own judgement, a bit hard to borrow a copy here in Aus, was happy I did as it will sit on the table in the lounge and I can pick it up and have a look thru when ever.

As far as the club goes we need it as sure as eggs, here a lot of the KC dogs are huge ( here in Australia ) at least 15 to 17 inches plus, plus, with chests you cannot span even if you Arnie the Terminator with the breeders spouting the follow the hounds crap and telling you how the dogs follow fox into dens ect ect. and all the while you are looking at dogs that would have trouble getting into a wombat hole and they are a huge hole, a small man can crawl down them, dont know why you would want to though!! They spout this same crap re follow the hounds and go to ground every time and all the while the dogs are so big they have no hope of getting in a LARGE fox den let alone a tight hole.

We have been able to get some small type lines together and now have a group of working terrier people looking to further the breed here as far as workers, it is a hard slog as the KC people are very cliquey and getting access to workers is hard but we are getting somewhere with a few breeders importing dogs from England and Europe with working backgrounds and making these available to us.

I wish you all the best in your endevour and encourage all that are interested in Borders to forget the ego's, forget about the $$$ and focus on getting Borders out there as workers and to promote them as such. My last two litters I gave pups to anyone that wanted to try them at work for the price of vaccinations, I want them out working and I want a good necleus of blood out there for us to be able to get back to if we need it.

Sorry this a bit of a ramble, but as I said before all the best with your project

Cheers

Edited August 30, 2009 by Marcos

[mark p 60]

Good on you P&S I'm happy to join and be the australian rep!!! lol

I got your book the other day a very enjoyable read and a table top quality book as well, I paid for it and didnt have to but wanted to see the book and make my own judgement, a bit hard to borrow a copy here in Aus, was happy I did as it will sit on the table in the lounge and I can pick it up and have a look thru when ever.

As far as the club goes we need it as sure as eggs, here a lot of the KC dogs are huge ( here in Australia ) at least 15 to 17 inches plus, plus, with chests you cannot span even if you Arnie the Terminator with the breeders spouting the follow the hounds crap and telling you how the dogs follow fox into dens ect ect. and all the while you are looking at dogs that would have trouble getting into a wombat hole and they are a huge hole, a small man can crawl down them, dont know why you would want to though!! They spout this same crap re follow the hounds and go to ground every time and all the while the dogs are so big they have no hope of getting in a LARGE fox den let alone a tight hole.

We have been able to get some small type lines together and now have a group of working terrier people looking to further the breed here as far as workers, it is a hard slog as the KC people are very cliquey and getting access to workers is hard but we are getting somewhere with a few breeders importing dogs from England and Europe with working backgrounds and making these available to us.

I wish you all the best in your endevour and encourage all that are interested in Borders to forget the ego's, forget about the $$$ and focus on getting Borders out there as workers and to promote them as such. My last two litters I gave pups to anyone that wanted to try them at work for the price of vaccinations, I want them out working and I want a good necleus of blood out there for us to be able to get back to if we need it.

Sorry this a bit of a ramble, but as I said before all the best with your project

Cheers

nearly fell asleep reading that load of shite was you on the :drink:when you wrote that

[Marcos 44]

No I wasn't mate just saying not a bad book not political or whatever in the book, just a good easy read!

Re the Border Club: Here we have no real workers or beeders of working kennels so we have joined up in the UK to try and get some good advice I wasnt on the piss when I wrote it I meant it. I reckon you and old mate P&S may have a bit of a beef.

 

I meant what I said about terriers in Australia and we are looking for help with our breeding and dogs not B.S. I hope you can get over it

Cheers

[Bosun11 537]

I have tried for years to get hold of a well bred Border, from well used tested stuff, with BOTH Parents having done some REAL graft. It has been the 'Holy Grail' and still chasing. No point getting into names, just leads to denials and chinese whispers. I refuse to pay the rediculous prices people ask for Pups with Papers, so have asked for Pups without. The usual answer has been "why would I sell you a Pup half price, with no papers, when I can get full price easily enough". That has been the attitude of nearly all the breeders, or close to it. That is why the Border is in the shitter, as a true working Terrier. Just my opinion

If you have tried for years,you must really want one,if i really wanted something i would pay the price,this is the same problem that keeps cropping up,there has been a set price paid for borders for years,so why should the man who has worked even harder to keep a working line going sell his cheaper,than those who keep them as pets,surely he is entitled to the same money

some people just dont get it and never will ....funny how its a alaunt owner that wrote that

I tried the alaunt but it didnt suit,maybe i will get my user name changed to please you,yes some people will never get it,you included

John i think you have shot your self in the foot markp and his friends in my opinion have the best working pedigree border line in the country you need men like them in the club. they have not got the odd one or two working borders, but kennel fulls of them. can anybody show me any other line of working border? has anybody got the oxcroft line of working border? lots of people talk about having this line but where are they on this tread? and do they work to the same standard as markp - bitches and dogs? as for the price of pups, i don't think any club should dictate to its members how much a pup should be sold for, that should be between the seller and buyer. if a terrier man wants this line of terrier, he must pay the going rate and markp don't sell his pups for £400 -£500. i think the pics that have been put up by markp would bring a smile to the faces of levi and ray walker, where ever they may be!!!!!

 

Just found that quite interesting as Jack Price who bred Oxcroft Borders never stated that they were the 'be all and end all' of working Borders, what Oxcroft Borders 'DID' do was both work underground and win at KC shows.

 

It was a line that 'if' you were that way inclined could service both requirements and that, in my book, wouldn't qualify an Oxcroft bred animal as a sound choice for someone looking for a working Border.

 

Oxcroft stuff back in the 's gained a little noteriety by being mentioned in a Plummer book or two and as want to happen, became a popular line to use BUT lets face it, the Cunningham-Rices advertised their 'genuine' working Border, whose name now escapes me, in the Shooting News for years, it never done anything, it never sired anything and yet again made a mockery of true working Border terriers.

 

Papers are there for price tags unfortunatley, as far as i'm concerned, if it looks like a Border and works, then, it is a WORKING BORDER TERRIER and I wouldn't need a set of papers to tell me so!

 

Any programme dedicated to matching the best with the best to breed a line of quality working animals must be admired BUT reading through this the cracks are starting to show and when it all comes down to it, money will be the straw that broke the camels back, just has it's done in the past not only with the Border but all working dog breeds, damn shame too!

[WILF 46,662]

As usual Bosun, a well written and considered post....quality mate.

 

I myself am not a fan of "Clubs", whatever good intentions folk may have it allmost always ends up with 6 blokes at the top in it for themselves and what they can have out of it.

The rest of the members just provide the funding.

 

My own opinion is, stuff the clubs.......do your own thing and keep to a small group of trusted pals......between you all, there should be a good dog or two no matter what the breed.

[Aaron 3]

As usual Bosun, a well written and considered post....quality mate.

 

I myself am not a fan of "Clubs", whatever good intentions folk may have it allmost always ends up with 6 blokes at the top in it for themselves and what they can have out of it.

The rest of the members just provide the funding.

 

My own opinion is, stuff the clubs.......do your own thing and keep to a small group of trusted pals......between you all, there should be a good dog or two no matter what the breed.

 

 

Well said wilf.

 

Aaron

[PICK AND SHOVEL 4]

I have tried for years to get hold of a well bred Border, from well used tested stuff, with BOTH Parents having done some REAL graft. It has been the 'Holy Grail' and still chasing. No point getting into names, just leads to denials and chinese whispers. I refuse to pay the rediculous prices people ask for Pups with Papers, so have asked for Pups without. The usual answer has been "why would I sell you a Pup half price, with no papers, when I can get full price easily enough". That has been the attitude of nearly all the breeders, or close to it. That is why the Border is in the shitter, as a true working Terrier. Just my opinion

If you have tried for years,you must really want one,if i really wanted something i would pay the price,this is the same problem that keeps cropping up,there has been a set price paid for borders for years,so why should the man who has worked even harder to keep a working line going sell his cheaper,than those who keep them as pets,surely he is entitled to the same money

some people just dont get it and never will ....funny how its a alaunt owner that wrote that

I tried the alaunt but it didnt suit,maybe i will get my user name changed to please you,yes some people will never get it,you included

John i think you have shot your self in the foot markp and his friends in my opinion have the best working pedigree border line in the country you need men like them in the club. they have not got the odd one or two working borders, but kennel fulls of them. can anybody show me any other line of working border? has anybody got the oxcroft line of working border? lots of people talk about having this line but where are they on this tread? and do they work to the same standard as markp - bitches and dogs? as for the price of pups, i don't think any club should dictate to its members how much a pup should be sold for, that should be between the seller and buyer. if a terrier man wants this line of terrier, he must pay the going rate and markp don't sell his pups for £400 -£500. i think the pics that have been put up by markp would bring a smile to the faces of levi and ray walker, where ever they may be!!!!!

 

Just found that quite interesting as Jack Price who bred Oxcroft Borders never stated that they were the 'be all and end all' of working Borders, what Oxcroft Borders 'DID' do was both work underground and win at KC shows.

 

It was a line that 'if' you were that way inclined could service both requirements and that, in my book, wouldn't qualify an Oxcroft bred animal as a sound choice for someone looking for a working Border.

 

Oxcroft stuff back in the 's gained a little noteriety by being mentioned in a Plummer book or two and as want to happen, became a popular line to use BUT lets face it, the Cunningham-Rices advertised their 'genuine' working Border, whose name now escapes me, in the Shooting News for years, it never done anything, it never sired anything and yet again made a mockery of true working Border terriers.

 

Papers are there for price tags unfortunatley, as far as i'm concerned, if it looks like a Border and works, then, it is a WORKING BORDER TERRIER and I wouldn't need a set of papers to tell me so!

 

Any programme dedicated to matching the best with the best to breed a line of quality working animals must be admired BUT reading through this the cracks are starting to show and when it all comes down to it, money will be the straw that broke the camels back, just has it's done in the past not only with the Border but all working dog breeds, damn shame too!

 

The Working Border Terrier Club may have a long road ahead of it...But life is all about challenges.... I have been contacted by a number of people that keep and work Borders, a few of which are doing what i would class as True Terrier Work. The club has been formed for the right reasons... The Working Border...If certain individuals dont want to be involved for whatever reason then thats entirely up to them...I cant make anyone join if they dont want to...However the club is not going to fail just because of one or two who see things in a different light. I am more than happy with the response the club has had in its early stages and have enjoyed the conversations i have had with people who want to improve the Border as a working breed and are wiling to be part of trying to do so.

I have had people knock me before...That started at school when my attendance was not how it should have been due to being out with the terriers...You can achieve your goals in life despite the doubters and those envious of what you do and what you have gained through determination and hard work.

There are many genuine lads on this site but there are it must be said some fools to. Ive forgot more about terrierwork than what they will ever know...

Once again thankyou to those that have shown there support in what the club stands for and what its objectives are...Im sure as always the genuine people will come forth and stand by a club that has been set up with the purpose of improving the Working side of the Border...A plus point i forgot to mention is that im at the helm and although i seem to be hitting a few rocks im certain we wont sink.

[nakednutt 58]

I'm sure the plummer club started off with all these great ideas and look at the bickering going on in that now. I hope it works for you john but I'd prefer wilfs method I think.

[mark p 60]

I have tried for years to get hold of a well bred Border, from well used tested stuff, with BOTH Parents having done some REAL graft. It has been the 'Holy Grail' and still chasing. No point getting into names, just leads to denials and chinese whispers. I refuse to pay the rediculous prices people ask for Pups with Papers, so have asked for Pups without. The usual answer has been "why would I sell you a Pup half price, with no papers, when I can get full price easily enough". That has been the attitude of nearly all the breeders, or close to it. That is why the Border is in the shitter, as a true working Terrier. Just my opinion

If you have tried for years,you must really want one,if i really wanted something i would pay the price,this is the same problem that keeps cropping up,there has been a set price paid for borders for years,so why should the man who has worked even harder to keep a working line going sell his cheaper,than those who keep them as pets,surely he is entitled to the same money

some people just dont get it and never will ....funny how its a alaunt owner that wrote that

I tried the alaunt but it didnt suit,maybe i will get my user name changed to please you,yes some people will never get it,you included

John i think you have shot your self in the foot markp and his friends in my opinion have the best working pedigree border line in the country you need men like them in the club. they have not got the odd one or two working borders, but kennel fulls of them. can anybody show me any other line of working border? has anybody got the oxcroft line of working border? lots of people talk about having this line but where are they on this tread? and do they work to the same standard as markp - bitches and dogs? as for the price of pups, i don't think any club should dictate to its members how much a pup should be sold for, that should be between the seller and buyer. if a terrier man wants this line of terrier, he must pay the going rate and markp don't sell his pups for £400 -£500. i think the pics that have been put up by markp would bring a smile to the faces of levi and ray walker, where ever they may be!!!!!

 

Just found that quite interesting as Jack Price who bred Oxcroft Borders never stated that they were the 'be all and end all' of working Borders, what Oxcroft Borders 'DID' do was both work underground and win at KC shows.

 

It was a line that 'if' you were that way inclined could service both requirements and that, in my book, wouldn't qualify an Oxcroft bred animal as a sound choice for someone looking for a working Border.

 

Oxcroft stuff back in the 's gained a little noteriety by being mentioned in a Plummer book or two and as want to happen, became a popular line to use BUT lets face it, the Cunningham-Rices advertised their 'genuine' working Border, whose name now escapes me, in the Shooting News for years, it never done anything, it never sired anything and yet again made a mockery of true working Border terriers.

 

Papers are there for price tags unfortunatley, as far as i'm concerned, if it looks like a Border and works, then, it is a WORKING BORDER TERRIER and I wouldn't need a set of papers to tell me so!

 

Any programme dedicated to matching the best with the best to breed a line of quality working animals must be admired BUT reading through this the cracks are starting to show and when it all comes down to it, money will be the straw that broke the camels back, just has it's done in the past not only with the Border but all working dog breeds, damn shame too!

 

The Working Border Terrier Club may have a long road ahead of it...But life is all about challenges.... I have been contacted by a number of people that keep and work Borders, a few of which are doing what i would class as True Terrier Work. The club has been formed for the right reasons... The Working Border...If certain individuals dont want to be involved for whatever reason then thats entirely up to them...I cant make anyone join if they dont want to...However the club is not going to fail just because of one or two who see things in a different light. I am more than happy with the response the club has had in its early stages and have enjoyed the conversations i have had with people who want to improve the Border as a working breed and are wiling to be part of trying to do so.

I have had people knock me before...That started at school when my attendance was not how it should have been due to being out with the terriers...You can achieve your goals in life despite the doubters and those envious of what you do and what you have gained through determination and hard work.

There are many genuine lads on this site but there are it must be said some fools to. Ive forgot more about terrierwork than what they will ever know...

Once again thankyou to those that have shown there support in what the club stands for and what its objectives are...Im sure as always the genuine people will come forth and stand by a club that has been set up with the purpose of improving the Working side of the Border...A plus point i forgot to mention is that im at the helm and although i seem to be hitting a few rocks im certain we wont sink.

digging lads will pissing themselves with some of the statements you make IVE FORGOT MORE ABOUT TERRIER WORK THAN WHAT THEY WILL EVER KNOW .A PLUS POINT IAM AT THE HELM i think youve been reading to many plumber books mate must be a midlands thing? you knock lads for selling a couple of pups a year and makeing a few quid when your selling books double the price of everyone eles whos ripping who off i bet your next edition dont sell so quick cant see many ending up on ebay going for good money like some other genuine authors can you.at the end of the day your in it for £££££££££££££££££££££££ and to make a name for your self . iam surprised you can get behind the wheel with the size of your head like i say good luck because all the lads i no who dig to borders think the same thing your in it for what you can get out of it £££££££££££££££££££

[Countryboyo 0]

 

im at the helm and although i seem to be hitting a few rocks im certain we wont sink.

 

I see you purchased "The little book of quotes" by Quotey Quoterson

 

Your already looking to the future and preparing to go all J Darcy on this project

[PICK AND SHOVEL 4]

I have tried for years to get hold of a well bred Border, from well used tested stuff, with BOTH Parents having done some REAL graft. It has been the 'Holy Grail' and still chasing. No point getting into names, just leads to denials and chinese whispers. I refuse to pay the rediculous prices people ask for Pups with Papers, so have asked for Pups without. The usual answer has been "why would I sell you a Pup half price, with no papers, when I can get full price easily enough". That has been the attitude of nearly all the breeders, or close to it. That is why the Border is in the shitter, as a true working Terrier. Just my opinion

If you have tried for years,you must really want one,if i really wanted something i would pay the price,this is the same problem that keeps cropping up,there has been a set price paid for borders for years,so why should the man who has worked even harder to keep a working line going sell his cheaper,than those who keep them as pets,surely he is entitled to the same money

some people just dont get it and never will ....funny how its a alaunt owner that wrote that

I tried the alaunt but it didnt suit,maybe i will get my user name changed to please you,yes some people will never get it,you included

John i think you have shot your self in the foot markp and his friends in my opinion have the best working pedigree border line in the country you need men like them in the club. they have not got the odd one or two working borders, but kennel fulls of them. can anybody show me any other line of working border? has anybody got the oxcroft line of working border? lots of people talk about having this line but where are they on this tread? and do they work to the same standard as markp - bitches and dogs? as for the price of pups, i don't think any club should dictate to its members how much a pup should be sold for, that should be between the seller and buyer. if a terrier man wants this line of terrier, he must pay the going rate and markp don't sell his pups for £400 -£500. i think the pics that have been put up by markp would bring a smile to the faces of levi and ray walker, where ever they may be!!!!!

 

Just found that quite interesting as Jack Price who bred Oxcroft Borders never stated that they were the 'be all and end all' of working Borders, what Oxcroft Borders 'DID' do was both work underground and win at KC shows.

 

It was a line that 'if' you were that way inclined could service both requirements and that, in my book, wouldn't qualify an Oxcroft bred animal as a sound choice for someone looking for a working Border.

 

Oxcroft stuff back in the 's gained a little noteriety by being mentioned in a Plummer book or two and as want to happen, became a popular line to use BUT lets face it, the Cunningham-Rices advertised their 'genuine' working Border, whose name now escapes me, in the Shooting News for years, it never done anything, it never sired anything and yet again made a mockery of true working Border terriers.

 

Papers are there for price tags unfortunatley, as far as i'm concerned, if it looks like a Border and works, then, it is a WORKING BORDER TERRIER and I wouldn't need a set of papers to tell me so!

 

Any programme dedicated to matching the best with the best to breed a line of quality working animals must be admired BUT reading through this the cracks are starting to show and when it all comes down to it, money will be the straw that broke the camels back, just has it's done in the past not only with the Border but all working dog breeds, damn shame too!

 

The Working Border Terrier Club may have a long road ahead of it...But life is all about challenges.... I have been contacted by a number of people that keep and work Borders, a few of which are doing what i would class as True Terrier Work. The club has been formed for the right reasons... The Working Border...If certain individuals dont want to be involved for whatever reason then thats entirely up to them...I cant make anyone join if they dont want to...However the club is not going to fail just because of one or two who see things in a different light. I am more than happy with the response the club has had in its early stages and have enjoyed the conversations i have had with people who want to improve the Border as a working breed and are wiling to be part of trying to do so.

I have had people knock me before...That started at school when my attendance was not how it should have been due to being out with the terriers...You can achieve your goals in life despite the doubters and those envious of what you do and what you have gained through determination and hard work.

There are many genuine lads on this site but there are it must be said some fools to. Ive forgot more about terrierwork than what they will ever know...

Once again thankyou to those that have shown there support in what the club stands for and what its objectives are...Im sure as always the genuine people will come forth and stand by a club that has been set up with the purpose of improving the Working side of the Border...A plus point i forgot to mention is that im at the helm and although i seem to be hitting a few rocks im certain we wont sink.

digging lads will pissing themselves with some of the statements you make IVE FORGOT MORE ABOUT TERRIER WORK THAN WHAT THEY WILL EVER KNOW .A PLUS POINT IAM AT THE HELM i think youve been reading to many plumber books mate must be a midlands thing? you knock lads for selling a couple of pups a year and makeing a few quid when your selling books double the price of everyone eles whos ripping who off i bet your next edition dont sell so quick cant see many ending up on ebay going for good money like some other genuine authors can you.at the end of the day your in it for £££££££££££££££££££££££ and to make a name for your self . iam surprised you can get behind the wheel with the size of your head like i say good luck because all the lads i no who dig to borders think the same thing your in it for what you can get out of it £££££££££££££££££££

The reason the book was priced accordingly was due to the fact of its quality....You need to check out the topic on this site as regards to the feedback on the book...As that's what really matters.... The book is crammed with pictures and is has over 30 thousand words..... A lot of the pics are of me working my dogs unlike more recent publications...How will i make money from the club I'm intrigued...Membership is £10 which will include a club magazine and a show...I think the best thing you can do is come and talk to me at one of the game fairs i attend in the Midlands or at our own show... So do me a favour and keep this topic free for others with a more positive attitude on what we are trying to do...

Its a pity you feel the way you do and have turned your opinion into a personal attack.... As the more people with genuine working Borders involved in the club the better the chances of it being a worthwhile exercise....

Maybe in time you will have a different opinion and come on board..But until then i would kindly ask you to refrain from attacking me personally as there are enough people willing to give us stick for what we do....

[PICK AND SHOVEL 4]

Have been busy designing the club website which should be up and running as soon as i can finish it...Good response to the club from the article in the Countrymans this week. Had a lot of enquiries about people becoming members and have already recieved some applications for membership. All in all a very good start to proceedings, thanks to everyone that has emailed me i will respond to them all in due course...Have just finished the club logo hope you like it....

[Countryboyo 0]

Have been busy designing the club website which should be up and running as soon as i can finish it...Good response to the club from the article in the Countrymans this week. Had a lot of enquiries about people becoming members and have already recieved some applications for membership. All in all a very good start to proceedings, thanks to everyone that has emailed me i will respond to them all in due course...Have just finished the club logo hope you like it....

 

Nice logo

[sniper 30]

Have just finished the club logo hope you like it....

Thats Quality that mate... ..... I Myself like the Border Terriers..but theirs not as much workers about of this breed as their should be imo...............Too many dog peddler and puppy breeders had got hold of them............................Good Luck with starting the club...and make sure the line is kept tight, and pups only sold to good dog lads that are init to work their dogs..not for the money...

 

Just My Opinion........ ATB With it pal

[Snapper 0]

Have just finished the club logo hope you like it....

Thats Quality that mate... ..... I Myself like the Border Terriers..but theirs not as much workers about of this breed as their should be imo...............Too many dog peddler and puppy breeders had got hold of them............................Good Luck with starting the club...and make sure the line is kept tight, and pups only sold to good dog lads that are init to work their dogs..not for the money...

 

Just My Opinion........ ATB With it pal

if the lads with pups sold pups then they would be in it for the money, and not the working dogs good, genuine lads do not sell dogs, they gift them to lads they think is worthy of them