Welsh Hawking Club

[EskdaleHawks 8]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

 

You just said you understand that the award is aimed at total beginners then quickly follow it up with saying as an experienced falconer of many years you don't like being asked to pay ex amount of pounds to achieve it-your not being asked mate! its not aimed at you, so there shouldnt be an issue surely?? Where young lads used to buy ferrets a couple of years ago and do a bit of rabbiting as a passing faze their now out there buying harris hawks and Goss hawks and geting fed up after a year or so of making an arse of it, so i dont think it is "elitist" for a club to ask new members to be able to prove they have at least the very basic of knowlege before they become a member of and therefore to a point representing the club, as for the price, this is dictated by the assesor not lantra themselvs. Think when all is said and done about the lantra award it all comes down to one thing... something which is true to all fieldsports in my opinion- people dont like change!! but change comes to everything, and if more people started looking at this award in a more positive light as a way to improve the standard of Falconry instead of throwing there rattles out the pram things could improve for the better within the sport. I believe LANTRA are currently working on a second award which is more aimed at experienced falconers which will like the first one be totaly un-mandatory, i dont doubt for a minute it will get the same greeting from experienced falconers as the first one got, but it will be interesting to see how many falconers who would class themselvs as experienced might struggle with it.

 

Foxy

Foxy! I really do wish you would read the posts that I have done on this thread properly and remember what has been said previously. In an earlier post I said that 'I too had enquired about the award and was told how much it would cost me'! So with that in mind No I wasn't being asked I was Told!

As for the club thing I do think it is becoming elitist when NO new member is allowed to join with out the award even if they are experienced. The cost, I know that it isn't LANTRA that sets the fees, but How can someone be assessed properly by the person that A) has just taught the candidate? and B)Just taken several hundred pounds off the candidate? Some how I don't think that the assessor/tutor is going to fail the candidate even if they don't come up to scratch. Do you?

Just to make my point more clear, Last year I was talking to a display falconer who told me that he had a young lad came up to him and promptly anounced that he was a falconer too! When asked why he considered himself to be a falconer , the lad replied " I've done the lantra award"! The falconer explained that just because he had done the award it didn't make him a falconer. The Lads Father Jumped in and "Oh yes it does"! The falconer then whent on to explain that it takes several years to become a falconer!!! With that they left still convinced that the boy was now a falconer because he had done the LANTRA award and had the piece of paper to say so.

I do however agree that club members are the public face of the club and their actions could bring a club into disrepute. But if a falconer of many years experience can vouch for a prospective new member then surely that should be enough?

The LANTRA award is a good thing nobody has said it isn't, but it would be nice to know and understand why both the government and the hawk board would not take responsability for it for its application???

I hope this clear any misunderstandings up. ATB. Rod

[Foxy09 3]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

 

You just said you understand that the award is aimed at total beginners then quickly follow it up with saying as an experienced falconer of many years you don't like being asked to pay ex amount of pounds to achieve it-your not being asked mate! its not aimed at you, so there shouldnt be an issue surely?? Where young lads used to buy ferrets a couple of years ago and do a bit of rabbiting as a passing faze their now out there buying harris hawks and Goss hawks and geting fed up after a year or so of making an arse of it, so i dont think it is "elitist" for a club to ask new members to be able to prove they have at least the very basic of knowlege before they become a member of and therefore to a point representing the club, as for the price, this is dictated by the assesor not lantra themselvs. Think when all is said and done about the lantra award it all comes down to one thing... something which is true to all fieldsports in my opinion- people dont like change!! but change comes to everything, and if more people started looking at this award in a more positive light as a way to improve the standard of Falconry instead of throwing there rattles out the pram things could improve for the better within the sport. I believe LANTRA are currently working on a second award which is more aimed at experienced falconers which will like the first one be totaly un-mandatory, i dont doubt for a minute it will get the same greeting from experienced falconers as the first one got, but it will be interesting to see how many falconers who would class themselvs as experienced might struggle with it.

 

Foxy

Foxy! I really do wish you would read the posts that I have done on this thread properly and remember what has been said previously. In an earlier post I said that 'I too had enquired about the award and was told how much it would cost me'! So with that in mind No I wasn't being asked I was Told!

As for the club thing I do think it is becoming elitist when NO new member is allowed to join with out the award even if they are experienced. The cost, I know that it isn't LANTRA that sets the fees, but How can someone be assessed properly by the person that A) has just taught the candidate? and B)Just taken several hundred pounds off the candidate? Some how I don't think that the assessor/tutor is going to fail the candidate even if they don't come up to scratch. Do you?

Just to make my point more clear, Last year I was talking to a display falconer who told me that he had a young lad came up to him and promptly anounced that he was a falconer too! When asked why he considered himself to be a falconer , the lad replied " I've done the lantra award"! The falconer explained that just because he had done the award it didn't make him a falconer. The Lads Father Jumped in and "Oh yes it does"! The falconer then whent on to explain that it takes several years to become a falconer!!! With that they left still convinced that the boy was now a falconer because he had done the LANTRA award and had the piece of paper to say so.

I do however agree that club members are the public face of the club and their actions could bring a club into disrepute. But if a falconer of many years experience can vouch for a prospective new member then surely that should be enough?

The LANTRA award is a good thing nobody has said it isn't, but it would be nice to know and understand why both the government and the hawk board would not take responsability for it for its application???

I hope this clear any misunderstandings up. ATB. Rod

 

I totally agree that proven experienced falconers should not have to hold the award to join a club but saying that i know of a few guys who would class themselvs as experienced lifelong falconers who i wouldnt let near my birds for five minutes. As for the assessor not wanting to fail the candidate after being paid money to teach him i think you may miss-understand how the process works, its the assessors role to help the candidate create a portfolio regarding the different questions asked in the different sections some of which needs to be practically demonstrated, i.e securing a bird on the fist, flying to the fist etc the candidate is paying for the knowlege and to learn the practical stuff from the assessor, this evidence/portfolio is then sent to be marked by a LANTRA verifier before the award/certificate is given, so its not really down to the bloke being paid if the student passes or not and hes going to look pretty silly charging for a course sending the material away to get it sent back saying they have failed so its in there best interest to make sure the candidate is up to scratch.

[welshdog73 0]

If you contact the club you might find that having been a member previously and being well known to them you may not have to hold the award to become a member again, as said countless times now its aimed at novices, and with the greatest of respect to the bloke who started this thread that is exactly what he appears to be, which is why i think the WHC may have stated the award was a requirement.

 

atb

Foxy

sorry foxy mate but i have been flying and hunting birds of pray since the age of 13 iam now 35 i packet it in 3 years ago but like a drug started backup i have never been involved with a club or organization so i thought i would inquire as i was at the falconry festival and maybe join WHC as my grandfather was on the committee and heavily involved in the 70s but thay told me i had to have the lantra award and thay did not ask me if i was a novice or pro just told me that all new members need a lantra award i just wanted to now what other peps thoughts were on this and i got more negative feed back than positive i think its a good idea for novice how cant get a mentor but the thought of paying some one i used to work for as a apprentice falconer seems silly so i will give the other club a look as thay seem more my cup of tea cheers

[Foxy09 3]

sorry foxy mate but i have been flying and hunting birds of pray since the age of 13 iam now 35 i packet it in 3 years ago but like a drug started backup i have never been involved with a club or organization so i thought i would inquire as i was at the falconry festival and maybe join WHC as my grandfather was on the committee and heavily involved in the 70s but thay told me i had to have the lantra award and thay did not ask me if i was a novice or pro just told me that all new members need a lantra award i just wanted to now what other peps thoughts were on this and i got more negative feed back than positive i think its a good idea for novice how cant get a mentor but the thought of paying some one i used to work for as a apprentice falconer seems silly so i will give the other club a look as thay seem more my cup of tea cheers

 

Well thats funny because according to your first post on the forum you have been working lurchers since the age of 13 and have just recently taken up the "noble art of falconry" as you put it, you also go on in further posts to mention you have bought a harris hawk and are not sure if you can tell its male or female for god sake! oh and its "birds of prey" not "pray" but im sure you will know that with all your years of experience. Right now im "praying" you do decide to take the lantra award but like many other few month wonders im guessing its going to be "to much hassle" i well and truely rest my case.

 

Foxy

[EskdaleHawks 8]

sorry foxy mate but i have been flying and hunting birds of pray since the age of 13 iam now 35 i packet it in 3 years ago but like a drug started backup i have never been involved with a club or organization so i thought i would inquire as i was at the falconry festival and maybe join WHC as my grandfather was on the committee and heavily involved in the 70s but thay told me i had to have the lantra award and thay did not ask me if i was a novice or pro just told me that all new members need a lantra award i just wanted to now what other peps thoughts were on this and i got more negative feed back than positive i think its a good idea for novice how cant get a mentor but the thought of paying some one i used to work for as a apprentice falconer seems silly so i will give the other club a look as thay seem more my cup of tea cheers

 

Well thats funny because according to your first post on the forum you have been working lurchers since the age of 13 and have just recently taken up the "noble art of falconry" as you put it, you also go on in further posts to mention you have bought a harris hawk and are not sure if you can tell its male or female for god sake! oh and its "birds of prey" not "pray" but im sure you will know that with all your years of experience. Right now im "praying" you do decide to take the lantra award but like many other few month wonders im guessing its going to be "to much hassle" i well and truely rest my case.

 

Foxy

Well spotted Foxy! I totally agree with you on this one. I don't usually go and check out other forum users but on this occasion I wish I had done so as it would have saved alot of needless hassel. never the less I have enjoyed the banter! It's good to talk!

Welshdog! For the sake of the bird if you have not already done so get help! It costs nothing to ask! And it also helps if you are a little more truthful!

Edited July 18, 2009 by EskdaleHawks

[Foxy09 3]

sorry foxy mate but i have been flying and hunting birds of pray since the age of 13 iam now 35 i packet it in 3 years ago but like a drug started backup i have never been involved with a club or organization so i thought i would inquire as i was at the falconry festival and maybe join WHC as my grandfather was on the committee and heavily involved in the 70s but thay told me i had to have the lantra award and thay did not ask me if i was a novice or pro just told me that all new members need a lantra award i just wanted to now what other peps thoughts were on this and i got more negative feed back than positive i think its a good idea for novice how cant get a mentor but the thought of paying some one i used to work for as a apprentice falconer seems silly so i will give the other club a look as thay seem more my cup of tea cheers

 

Well thats funny because according to your first post on the forum you have been working lurchers since the age of 13 and have just recently taken up the "noble art of falconry" as you put it, you also go on in further posts to mention you have bought a harris hawk and are not sure if you can tell its male or female for god sake! oh and its "birds of prey" not "pray" but im sure you will know that with all your years of experience. Right now im "praying" you do decide to take the lantra award but like many other few month wonders im guessing its going to be "to much hassle" i well and truely rest my case.

 

Foxy

Well spotted Foxy! I totally agree with you on this one. I don't usually go and check out other forum users but on this occasion I wish I had done so as it would have saved alot of needless hassel. never the less I have enjoyed the banter! It's good to talk!

Welshdog! For the sake of the bird if you have not already done so get help! It costs nothing to ask! And it also helps if you are a little more truthful!

 

No bother mate, if everyone agreed all the time on these forums they would be very boring! and noeone can argue there cases better than two scots!

 

atb

Foxy

[jasper65 6]

For the sake of the bird if you have not already done so get help! It costs nothing to ask!

 

as said the birds welfare should come first! lots of different forums and lots of people to ask these days with plenty of information to gleam from, most of the archives will also shed some light on alot of questions........

 

Jasper