Welsh Hawking Club

[welshdog73 0]

I went to the falconry festival on the weekend and decided to try and join the welsh hawking club and thay told me that i need a lantra bird of pray keeping award it so happens that lantra where there as well so i asked about the certificate and thay were very unhelpfully thay could not give a my price of the course and told me that i needed 5 other people to tack the course does anyone now the price and has any one taken the course and is it worth all this trouble.

Edited July 13, 2009 by welshdog73

[EskdaleHawks 8]

I went to the falconry festival on the weekend and decided to try and join the welsh hawking club and thay told me that i need a lantra bird of pray keeping award it so happens that lantra where there as well so i asked about the certificate and thay were very unhelpfully thay could not give a my price of the course and told me that i needed 5 other people to tack the course does anyone now the price and has any one taken the course and is it worth all this trouble.

So LANTRA rears its head again??? At the risk of upsetting a few folk, here we go!

The LANTRA award - A start in Falconry, is an animal welfare thing!

THERE IS NO LANTRA COURSE. It is an assessment of your ability to keep a bird of prey. It covers the basics of husbandry,housing,feeding and early training culmanating in getting the bird to fly to the fist on the creance. You should only be paying for the assessment and certificate. The reason that they seemed unhelpful at the festival is that, seeing as the government wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, and the hawk board wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, it was then placed in the capable hands of the commercial sector, which then gave EVERY falconry centre in the country, a license to print money. This is where the confusion lies and indeed where the term LANTRA COURSE sprang up. A Falconry centre course that at the end of which you can gain the LANTRA award, which could end up costing you several hundred pounds just to be told that you can look after and train a bird to fly to the fist. It mentions nothing about entering and actually hunting. In my opinion it is a route to self imposed licensing by the BFC and the WHC that will eventually become law??? Until such time keep your money in your pocket. As I understand if you can get a fully paid up member to vouch for you then you should be able to join, but I am not sure. I firmly believe that if you can find a good mentor you will gain more confidence and insight in to the world of falconry over a period of time. Just because somebody has done the LANTRA award, they do not become falconers! This has to be earned by hard work and many,many, man hours put in to handling and flying different birds. I hope this helps? Regards, Rod.

Edited July 14, 2009 by EskdaleHawks

[farlap 19]

I went to the falconry festival on the weekend and decided to try and join the welsh hawking club and thay told me that i need a lantra bird of pray keeping award it so happens that lantra where there as well so i asked about the certificate and thay were very unhelpfully thay could not give a my price of the course and told me that i needed 5 other people to tack the course does anyone now the price and has any one taken the course and is it worth all this trouble.

So LANTRA rears its head again??? At the risk of upsetting a few folk, here we go!

The LANTRA award - A start in Falconry, is an animal welfare thing!

THERE IS NO LANTRA COURSE. It is an assessment of your ability to keep a bird of prey. It covers the basics of husbandry,housing,feeding and early training culmanating in getting the bird to fly to the fist on the creance. You should only be paying for the assessment and certificate. The reason that they seemed unhelpful at the festival is that, seeing as the government wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, and the hawk board wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, it was then placed in the capable hands of the commercial sector, which then gave EVERY falconry centre in the country, a license to print money. This is where the confusion lies and indeed where the term LANTRA COURSE sprang up. A Falconry centre course that at the end of which you can gain the LANTRA award, which could end up costing you several hundred pounds just to be told that you can look after and train a bird to fly to the fist. It mentions nothing about entering and actually hunting. In my opinion it is a route to self imposed licensing by the BFC and the WHC that will eventually become law??? Until such time keep your money in your pocket. As I understand if you can get a fully paid up member to vouch for you then you should be able to join, but I am not sure. I firmly believe that if you can find a good mentor you will gain more confidence and insight in to the world of falconry over a period of time. Just because somebody has done the LANTRA award, they do not become falconers! This has to be earned by hard work and many,many, man hours put in to handling and flying different birds. I hope this helps? Regards, Rod.

just to add to Rods splendid post.....I believe that if you join WHC they give you a year to get tested, and will hep with the costs.....so might be worth speaking to your local area representative. there was an informative post on the same topic on IFFrecently so have a look there. I used to tbe with WHC many years ago but membership lapsed and although id quite like to rejoinas field meets and some mettings were informative, I just cant be arsed with all the hassle it appears to now involve!

[welshdog73 0]

I went to the falconry festival on the weekend and decided to try and join the welsh hawking club and thay told me that i need a lantra bird of pray keeping award it so happens that lantra where there as well so i asked about the certificate and thay were very unhelpfully thay could not give a my price of the course and told me that i needed 5 other people to tack the course does anyone now the price and has any one taken the course and is it worth all this trouble.

So LANTRA rears its head again??? At the risk of upsetting a few folk, here we go!

The LANTRA award - A start in Falconry, is an animal welfare thing!

THERE IS NO LANTRA COURSE. It is an assessment of your ability to keep a bird of prey. It covers the basics of husbandry,housing,feeding and early training culmanating in getting the bird to fly to the fist on the creance. You should only be paying for the assessment and certificate. The reason that they seemed unhelpful at the festival is that, seeing as the government wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, and the hawk board wouldn't take responsability for LANTRA, it was then placed in the capable hands of the commercial sector, which then gave EVERY falconry centre in the country, a license to print money. This is where the confusion lies and indeed where the term LANTRA COURSE sprang up. A Falconry centre course that at the end of which you can gain the LANTRA award, which could end up costing you several hundred pounds just to be told that you can look after and train a bird to fly to the fist. It mentions nothing about entering and actually hunting. In my opinion it is a route to self imposed licensing by the BFC and the WHC that will eventually become law??? Until such time keep your money in your pocket. As I understand if you can get a fully paid up member to vouch for you then you should be able to join, but I am not sure. I firmly believe that if you can find a good mentor you will gain more confidence and insight in to the world of falconry over a period of time. Just because somebody has done the LANTRA award, they do not become falconers! This has to be earned by hard work and many,many, man hours put in to handling and flying different birds. I hope this helps? Regards, Rod.

cheers rod it all sounds two much hassle and money i will stick with what i got

[hawk1 0]

exellent post rod ...i looked at the course a few years back and my old mentor said he could learn me more in an hour with him and it wouldnt cost me anything well appart from a good bottle of whiskey.... i reakon its a load of shit too.

[Tiercel 6,986]

Forget the WHC. As a new member you would not get to go on any good field meets. I would recommend The hawking Club. They are based not far from you in Church Village All members new and old are welcomed to field meets they hold meetings once a month in a pub in Church village.

 

Contact can be made though

 

Adrian Williams TEL/FAX: 01443 206333 Email: adewilliams@saqnet.co.uk

 

The members there are all working class people who are not up their own arse.

 

Hope this helps.

 

TC

[EskdaleHawks 8]

exellent post rod ...i looked at the course a few years back and my old mentor said he could learn me more in an hour with him and it wouldnt cost me anything well appart from a good bottle of whiskey.... i reakon its a load of shit too.

 

Thanks! I wouldn't say that the award is 'a load of shit' as I think that it has a place in that it is of some use to a total beginner, whome which it is aimed at anyway! I to made enquiries about the award. I told them what the level of my experience was, who my mentor was, and what birds I had and, had also handled and flown. It mattered not a jot. I was told that I would have to go and spend a day with the centre, and, if at the end of the day they felt that there were any areas that they felt, I needed to brush up on, I would have to attend a second day before I was assessed, and for that privilage they would charge me £115 per day, plus £15 for the certificate A grand total of £245 for two days to be told that I knew enough to keep bird alive and well fed and train it to fly to the fist. I told my mentor who is a master falconer and I cannot repeat on a public forum what he said to me without causing a lot of unnecessary aggro! somthing we can all do without. ATB. Rod

[Foxy09 3]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

[welshdog73 0]

Forget the WHC. As a new member you would not get to go on any good field meets. I would recommend The hawking Club. They are based not far from you in Church Village All members new and old are welcomed to field meets they hold meetings once a month in a pub in Church village.

 

Contact can be made though

 

Adrian Williams TEL/FAX: 01443 206333 Email: adewilliams@saqnet.co.uk

 

The members there are all working class people who are not up their own arse.

 

Hope this helps.

 

TC

cheers i will defiantly give a ring

[jasper65 6]

Forget the WHC. As a new member you would not get to go on any good field meets. I would recommend The hawking Club. They are based not far from you in Church Village All members new and old are welcomed to field meets they hold meetings once a month in a pub in Church village.

 

Contact can be made though

 

Adrian Williams TEL/FAX: 01443 206333 Email: adewilliams@saqnet.co.uk

 

The members there are all working class people who are not up their own arse.

 

Hope this helps.

 

TC

cheers i will defiantly give a ring

 

adrian williams is a good guy! I have a old Imprint Hungarian female here he bred many moons ago......

[EskdaleHawks 8]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

Edited July 17, 2009 by EskdaleHawks

[lurchers 2,763]

with a lot of people these days who is starting out with birds of prey turn out to be young lads going through a phase for 6-7mthsd then get rid of it because they fancy doing something else.also alot of people at these fairs try to look down at there noses at people,at the end of the day how did they start out so there is no way i would have some toffee nosed shite taking my money for a bit of paperto say you can fly a bird

[Foxy09 3]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

 

You just said you understand that the award is aimed at total beginners then quickly follow it up with saying as an experienced falconer of many years you don't like being asked to pay ex amount of pounds to achieve it-your not being asked mate! its not aimed at you, so there shouldnt be an issue surely?? Where young lads used to buy ferrets a couple of years ago and do a bit of rabbiting as a passing faze their now out there buying harris hawks and Goss hawks and geting fed up after a year or so of making an arse of it, so i dont think it is "elitist" for a club to ask new members to be able to prove they have at least the very basic of knowlege before they become a member of and therefore to a point representing the club, as for the price, this is dictated by the assesor not lantra themselvs. Think when all is said and done about the lantra award it all comes down to one thing... something which is true to all fieldsports in my opinion- people dont like change!! but change comes to everything, and if more people started looking at this award in a more positive light as a way to improve the standard of Falconry instead of throwing there rattles out the pram things could improve for the better within the sport. I believe LANTRA are currently working on a second award which is more aimed at experienced falconers which will like the first one be totaly un-mandatory, i dont doubt for a minute it will get the same greeting from experienced falconers as the first one got, but it will be interesting to see how many falconers who would class themselvs as experienced might struggle with it.

 

Foxy

[farlap 19]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

 

You just said you understand that the award is aimed at total beginners then quickly follow it up with saying as an experienced falconer of many years you don't like being asked to pay ex amount of pounds to achieve it-your not being asked mate! its not aimed at you, so there shouldnt be an issue surely?? Where young lads used to buy ferrets a couple of years ago and do a bit of rabbiting as a passing faze their now out there buying harris hawks and Goss hawks and geting fed up after a year or so of making an arse of it, so i dont think it is "elitist" for a club to ask new members to be able to prove they have at least the very basic of knowlege before they become a member of and therefore to a point representing the club, as for the price, this is dictated by the assesor not lantra themselvs. Think when all is said and done about the lantra award it all comes down to one thing... something which is true to all fieldsports in my opinion- people dont like change!! but change comes to everything, and if more people started looking at this award in a more positive light as a way to improve the standard of Falconry instead of throwing there rattles out the pram things could improve for the better within the sport. I believe LANTRA are currently working on a second award which is more aimed at experienced falconers which will like the first one be totaly un-mandatory, i dont doubt for a minute it will get the same greeting from experienced falconers as the first one got, but it will be interesting to see how many falconers who would class themselvs as experienced might struggle with it.

 

Foxy

you are missing the point of the original post I feel....and it is in relation to that that I and I believe Rod both posted. It was having to pass the LANTRA course in order to become a member of the WHC that we were discussing, not the merit of the coure on its own. personally I feel anything that will educate someone who, on a whim, thinks they would like to take up the sport, is an excellent idea......what i do object to as a lapsed member is having to do it when there are several people on the comittee or members who all know me and my birds from several years membership in the past. that is all.

[Foxy09 3]

Sorry to piss on everyones parade but i happen to think the LANTRA falconry award is one of the best things to happen to Falconry in years, spent the weekend at the festival myself and bumped into a fair few people who could do alot worse than to get involved in it. Like what has already been mentioned some less than credible centres have used it as a money making opportunity, which is a real shame because to a complete novice which little or no knowlege it is a great start to give a general oversight of whats involved in keeping a bird of prey, the award is called " beggining falconry " award and does cover the very basics of starting with a bird which is why i think it gets so much stick from more experienced falconers-its not meant to be for them! I also think its a great idea that clubs are using the award as an entry requirement as taking the award shows a level of commitment and willingness to learn and seperates those that "cant be bothered with the hassle" because funnily enough if you thing going along for a couple of days training then answering some questions is to much hassle your probably better taking up Golf!

 

Foxy

I don't think that you're 'pissing on anyones parade'! If you read my last post, I stated that the award WAS aimed at total beginners. What I don't like is that being asked to pay ex amount of £s for a piece of paper that says that I have passed the assessment to a level where I can keep, feed, and train a bird to fly to the fist on the creance when I have been Flying and hunting and breeding birds for years, with out any deaths!.Committment enough don't you think! Now it seems that both the BFC and WHC appear to be imposing the LANTRA award as a statutory requirement for membership? Is this not being slightly elitist? In Terry larges own words at the falconry fair a couple of years back ' So you know you can do it! Then come and get that little piece of paper that says you can'! And that was aimed at competent falconers not just beginners, to save face with the general public! To digress a little, I do agree that there are people out there that maybe shouldn't have birds, But this is surely down to the person selling the bird. When selling a bird you can only ask so many questions to verbally assertain persons suitability. The rest is instinct. If I don't like the look of somone then they don't get the bird. Simple. As for golf! A good walk, RUINED!!! ATB. Rod.

 

You just said you understand that the award is aimed at total beginners then quickly follow it up with saying as an experienced falconer of many years you don't like being asked to pay ex amount of pounds to achieve it-your not being asked mate! its not aimed at you, so there shouldnt be an issue surely?? Where young lads used to buy ferrets a couple of years ago and do a bit of rabbiting as a passing faze their now out there buying harris hawks and Goss hawks and geting fed up after a year or so of making an arse of it, so i dont think it is "elitist" for a club to ask new members to be able to prove they have at least the very basic of knowlege before they become a member of and therefore to a point representing the club, as for the price, this is dictated by the assesor not lantra themselvs. Think when all is said and done about the lantra award it all comes down to one thing... something which is true to all fieldsports in my opinion- people dont like change!! but change comes to everything, and if more people started looking at this award in a more positive light as a way to improve the standard of Falconry instead of throwing there rattles out the pram things could improve for the better within the sport. I believe LANTRA are currently working on a second award which is more aimed at experienced falconers which will like the first one be totaly un-mandatory, i dont doubt for a minute it will get the same greeting from experienced falconers as the first one got, but it will be interesting to see how many falconers who would class themselvs as experienced might struggle with it.

 

Foxy

you are missing the point of the original post I feel....and it is in relation to that that I and I believe Rod both posted. It was having to pass the LANTRA course in order to become a member of the WHC that we were discussing, not the merit of the coure on its own. personally I feel anything that will educate someone who, on a whim, thinks they would like to take up the sport, is an excellent idea......what i do object to as a lapsed member is having to do it when there are several people on the comittee or members who all know me and my birds from several years membership in the past. that is all.

 

If you contact the club you might find that having been a member previously and being well known to them you may not have to hold the award to become a member again, as said countless times now its aimed at novices, and with the greatest of respect to the bloke who started this thread that is exactly what he appears to be, which is why i think the WHC may have stated the award was a requirement.

 

atb

Foxy