Air Pistol

[Matt 160]

Crossman 2240 suits me .... hell of a crack to it though!

 

Ill second that!! Does make a hell of a noise though.

I use mine to despatch magpies in the larson, it doesnt leak so one Bulb lasts ages.

I paid about £70 for mine new

Dont buy a webley pistol they are not up to doing mink, I know from watching someone try

 

I thought using a pistol to dispatch squirrels was bad enough, but MAGPIES?

 

 

Is no-one capable of doing a proper risk assessment?

[andybrock 2]

Crossman 2240 suits me .... hell of a crack to it though!

 

Ill second that!! Does make a hell of a noise though.

I use mine to despatch magpies in the larson, it doesnt leak so one Bulb lasts ages.

I paid about £70 for mine new

Dont buy a webley pistol they are not up to doing mink, I know from watching someone try

 

I thought using a pistol to dispatch squirrels was bad enough, but MAGPIES?

 

 

Is no-one capable of doing a proper risk assessment?

 

I've often wondered how we ever managed to do our jobs before risk assesments were invented......what ever happened to common sense, where an adult can make a judgement if something is safe to do or not. I only want to shoot a fecking squirrel caught in a cage I'm not asking to launch a cruise missile to kill it.

[Daveo 61]

Crossman 2240 suits me .... hell of a crack to it though!

 

Ill second that!! Does make a hell of a noise though.

I use mine to despatch magpies in the larson, it doesnt leak so one Bulb lasts ages.

I paid about £70 for mine new

Dont buy a webley pistol they are not up to doing mink, I know from watching someone try

 

I thought using a pistol to dispatch squirrels was bad enough, but MAGPIES?

 

 

Is no-one capable of doing a proper risk assessment?

 

Its a wonder its safe for you to get out of bed in a morning mate, Get back in your cotton wool, you'll catch a cold.

[Matt 160]

Professional Pest Controllers have to carry out task specific risk assessments by law.

 

A risk assessment is just a way of acknowledging that you are capable of minimising risk, and common sense is a very important factor in it's completion.

 

If anyone carries out a job of work doing pest control, then they have a legal duty to risk assess every task involved, and that risk assessment must be suitable and sufficient.

 

I am suggesting that no professional who has done a risk assessment that is suitable and sufficient should use an air pistol to dispatch cage trapped birds, and it is very dubious to use one for squirrels when there are safer methods available - and what is more, I'm not alone in having that opinion, which is why the Forestry Commision, and DEFRA train their staff to dispatch these species without the use of a gun.

 

You can all bang on about me not having any common sense all you like. If ever I am unfortunate enough to have to stand in front of a judge to explain my actions, I want to be sure that I've dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

 

You should also remember that a legal precedent was set recently when some antis couldn't be prosecuted for a vicious assault on a female beater because the sucessfully claimed that the shoot in question was not legal. The reason? They hadn't done risk assessments and produced a health and safety policy.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Matt the Rat

[stubby 175]

Professional Pest Controllers have to carry out task specific risk assessments by law.

 

A risk assessment is just a way of acknowledging that you are capable of minimising risk, and common sense is a very important factor in it's completion.

 

If anyone carries out a job of work doing pest control, then they have a legal duty to risk assess every task involved, and that risk assessment must be suitable and sufficient.

 

I am suggesting that no professional who has done a risk assessment that is suitable and sufficient should use an air pistol to dispatch cage trapped birds, and it is very dubious to use one for squirrels when there are safer methods available - and what is more, I'm not alone in having that opinion, which is why the Forestry Commision, and DEFRA train their staff to dispatch these species without the use of a gun.

 

You can all bang on about me not having any common sense all you like. If ever I am unfourtunate enough to have to stand in front of a judge to explain my actions, I want to be sure that I've dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

 

You should also remember that a legal precident was set recently when some antis couldn't be prosecuted for a vicous assult on a female beater because the sucessfully claimed that the shoot in question was not legal. The reason? They hadn't done risk assessments and produced a health and safety policy.

 

the only drawback here matt, is that not everybody here is a full time pest controller, some members trap etc for the sport, or as favours to gain permissions, they may well think a situation through in their head, but they certainly wont have risk ass' sheets will they, and surely as long as they are carrying out the "cull" in a humaine way, that can only be good, to the point they are bothering to ask, rather than saying/thinking, "well Ive got this old spud gun, takes a few shots, but gets there in the end"

[Daveo 61]

I really cant see the excessive danger in shooting a squirrel, rat or magpie in a cage trap with an air pistol.

Its difficult to remove a live aggitated magpie from a larson trap on a regular basis without letting them go

I also believe its quicker and more humane than trying to force an animal into a sack so you can kill it.

We will have to disagree on this one

[stubby 175]

Its difficult to remove a live aggitated magpie from a larson trap

 

if my missus can do it, anyone can,

but Im on your side concerning the sack way

[andybrock 2]

I really cant see the excessive danger in shooting a squirrel, rat or magpie in a cage trap with an air pistol.

Its difficult to remove a live aggitated magpie from a larson trap on a regular basis without letting them go

I also believe its quicker and more humane than trying to force an animal into a sack so you can kill it.

We will have to disagree on this one

 

I agree Daveo I'm sure it is quicker, and at the end of the day we will all choose which ever method we are comfortable with as long as the animal is dispatched humanly.

[andybrock 2]

I’m considering buying an air pistol for dispatching squirrels and mink caught in cage traps. I normally use an air rifle for this but in some situations an air pistol would be more discreet. Does anyone use an air pistol for this and if so which do you use?

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

Well, thats the legal side sorted but as for my original question i'm still none the wiser

[Matt 160]

OK, you guys aren't interested in the reasons not to use a pistol, but I'll outline the safety reasons for you.

 

Firstly, you run the risk of an ARU turning up, and a bunch of trigger happy plod pointing their H&K rifles at you. With a pistol (as opposed to a rifle) there is also the risk that they will be that bit more trigger happy because it's a 'nasty-wasty pistol'.

 

Secondly, you risk the safety of yourself, and any possible onlookers (how many times have you heard people say "I didn't see him or her" if you get a ricochet off the bars of the trap. No matter how careful you are, there is always that chance that the animal will move at the last second. Even if you are sure no-one can see what you are doing (in the back of a van for instance) someone may well be watching you from a distance, and your actions can very easily be misinterpreted.

 

Then there is the humanity angle. To accurately place a shot into a very small target of a possibly moving animal is quite difficult, especially if you've moved the trap to somewhere else to do the dirty deed. One way around that problem is to use a 'wicket' to restrain the animal into a corner, which IMHO causes it more stress.

 

Lets just get this clear. If you place a hessian sack over the end of a cage, and open the door, squirrels will run into it with little or no encouragement. Once its in the bag, they tend to run into a corner and sit quietly, you can then give it a sharp blow to the bitey end and tip it out of the bag. You should then make sure it is actually dead, by checking the eye reflex, and if it is just unconscious, give it another accurate blow. Its not difficult, it's not inhumane, and it certainly is not dangerous.

 

As for killing cage trapped birds - if you haven't got the balls to put your (possibly gloved) hands into a larsen trap to retrieve a caught magpie, you shouldn't even consider using a trap. You can easily take the bird out, and kill it either using a pliers type semark despatcher, or a priest.

 

For the record, I'm not against using guns to dispatch when necessary. I am licensed to use a .32 and a .22 (FAC) pistol for humane dispatch, and I've dispatched a few mink and rats using an air rifle - but in my opinion, and that of the government agencies that regularly carry out humane dispatch, an air pistol is not required to dispatch grey squirrels or magpies.

 

If you are a properly trained professional pest controller, you should already know that, and have carried out proper, suitable and sufficient risk assessments to comply with the law.

 

So back to the original question - none. Stick to your rifle for mink, and learn how to dispatch squirrels properly.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Matt the Rat

[stubby 175]

Firstly, you run the risk of an ARU turning up, and a bunch of trigger happy plod pointing their H&K rifles at you. With a pistol (as opposed to a rifle) there is also the risk that they will be that bit more trigger happy because it's a 'nasty-wasty pistol'.

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all our cull's using an air weapon, are phoned in to either the police(if on a public highway) or british transport police (if on the tracks/station, times of use, and finish are given, contact number, reg number etc

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Secondly, you risk the safety of yourself, and any possible onlookers (how many times have you heard people say "I didn't see him or her" if you get a ricochet off the bars of the trap.

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we only carry out cull's, once an area if barriered off to anyone, public or staff, and only use hollow point pellets to reduce the chance of ricochets

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No matter how careful you are, there is always that chance that the animal will move at the last second. Even if you are sure no-one can see what you are doing (in the back of a van for instance) someone may well be watching you from a distance, and your actions can very easily be misinterpreted.

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this bit really is aimed at me, as Im the only one mentioning a van, for the last three years of working nights, around most of londons stations, where we have had terrorism, bomb threats etc, I have probably taken a few hundred "wee breaks" in the back of my van, climbing in the back doors and exiting looking sheepish, never once have I been confronted by armed police, due to public viewing me from a distance,

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Then there is the humanity angle. To accurately place a shot into a very small target of a possibly moving animal is quite difficult, especially if you've moved the trap to somewhere else to do the dirty deed. One way around that problem is to use a 'wicket' to restrain the animal into a corner, which IMHO causes it more stress.

 

Lets just get this clear. If you place a hessian sack over the end of a cage, and open the door, squirrels will run into it with little or no encouragement. Once its in the bag, they tend to run into a corner and sit quietly, you can then give it a sharp blow to the bitey end and tip it out of the bag. You should then make sure it is actually dead, by checking the eye reflex, and if it is just unconscious, give it another accurate blow. Its not difficult, it's not inhumane, and it certainly is not dangerous.

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we can easily pick faults in anyones comments, but Im still not one for the sack way, you have just said, hit it, tip it out, then check if its dead, so its not 100% gurantee'd humane,

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As for killing cage trapped birds - if you haven't got the balls to put your (possibly gloved) hands into a larsen trap to retrieve a caught magpie, you shouldn't even consider using a trap. You can easily take the bird out, and kill it either using a pliers type semark despatcher, or a priest.

 

For the record, I'm not against using guns to dispatch when necessary. I am licensed to use a .32 and a .22 (FAC) pistol for humane dispatch, and I've dispatched a few mink and rats using an air rifle - but in my opinion, and that of the government agencies that regularly carry out humane dispatch, an air pistol is not required to dispatch grey squirrels or magpies.

 

If you are a properly trained professional pest controller, you should already know that, and have carried out proper, suitable and sufficient risk assessments to comply with the law.

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again, I'll say, I dont remember the guy asking for advise on what pistol to buy, quoting that he was a "properly trained professional pest controller

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So back to the original question - none. Stick to your rifle for mink, and learn how to dispatch squirrels properly.

[Bobba_fett 117]

OK, you guys aren't interested in the reasons not to use a pistol, but I'll outline the safety reasons for you.

 

Firstly, you run the risk of an ARU turning up, and a bunch of trigger happy plod pointing their H&K rifles at you. With a pistol (as opposed to a rifle) there is also the risk that they will be that bit more trigger happy because it's a 'nasty-wasty pistol'.

 

Secondly, you risk the safety of yourself, and any possible onlookers (how many times have you heard people say "I didn't see him or her" if you get a ricochet off the bars of the trap. No matter how careful you are, there is always that chance that the animal will move at the last second. Even if you are sure no-one can see what you are doing (in the back of a van for instance) someone may well be watching you from a distance, and your actions can very easily be misinterpreted.

 

Then there is the humanity angle. To accurately place a shot into a very small target of a possibly moving animal is quite difficult, especially if you've moved the trap to somewhere else to do the dirty deed. One way around that problem is to use a 'wicket' to restrain the animal into a corner, which IMHO causes it more stress.

 

Lets just get this clear. If you place a hessian sack over the end of a cage, and open the door, squirrels will run into it with little or no encouragement. Once its in the bag, they tend to run into a corner and sit quietly, you can then give it a sharp blow to the bitey end and tip it out of the bag. You should then make sure it is actually dead, by checking the eye reflex, and if it is just unconscious, give it another accurate blow. Its not difficult, it's not inhumane, and it certainly is not dangerous.

 

As for killing cage trapped birds - if you haven't got the balls to put your (possibly gloved) hands into a larsen trap to retrieve a caught magpie, you shouldn't even consider using a trap. You can easily take the bird out, and kill it either using a pliers type semark despatcher, or a priest.

 

For the record, I'm not against using guns to dispatch when necessary. I am licensed to use a .32 and a .22 (FAC) pistol for humane dispatch, and I've dispatched a few mink and rats using an air rifle - but in my opinion, and that of the government agencies that regularly carry out humane dispatch, an air pistol is not required to dispatch grey squirrels or magpies.

 

If you are a properly trained professional pest controller, you should already know that, and have carried out proper, suitable and sufficient risk assessments to comply with the law.

 

So back to the original question - none. Stick to your rifle for mink, and learn how to dispatch squirrels properly.

 

 

Thats all well and good but all this risk assessment sucks the last ounce of fun out of everything. I dont care if it sounds childish or irresponsible, but the chances of a air pistol pellet to ricochet off the bars is one thing, for it then to hit some one and acually do them any real damage is another. Yes yes you need it for your job but you dont have to be so much of a jobs worth about it.

 

personaly if i live catch a squirrel (as much as Matt's gonna hate this) i take it out into a field, let it bold and shoot it with my shotgun...

Edited July 2, 2009 by Bobba_fett

[Daveo 61]

Well i think the top and bottom of it is this:

Any full power air pistol Co2 or spring will do the job, you are probably better sticking with your airrifle or using a an alternative method perhaps one outlined above.

I will continue to to use my method and Matt will continue with his

May all your trapping be safe and effective.