Born Or Made?

[undisputed 1,664]

Ok a wee topic for discussion....are good dogs born that way or is it all to do with how they're entered in the field?....is it about opportunity? the amount of game you have access too? Experience.....or is the dog just born that way....Nature V's Nurture.....try to keep it civil and give your reason for your opinion.....my own opinion is it's more to do with how the dog is entered to game. Most pups leave their dam at around 6 - 8 weeks so wont pick up anything from her......I think a dog will learn more from working beside a seasoned campaigner than any trait inherited from the parents.

[riohog 5,714]

ok it has to have the genetic inprint in there (instinct to hunt) but like you say it has to have the oppertunaty

 

to be able to use it the more it does the better at it it gets or should do some will naturally be better at it than others

 

 

 

those are the ones were are looking for

[Guest SJM]

Puppies learn a lot from their mothers, how to lap from a dish, how to eat food from a bowl, how to inhibit their bite and basic manners, how to react around humans if the dam is fearful etc the pups will copy her, how you can say they dont learn from her I dont know

Edited May 27, 2009 by SJM

[Guest MickyB]

I firmly belive that BOTH are as important as each other....

 

The breeding behind the dog will give it the phisical charicteristics needed to do its job as well as the spirit/determination etc inbuilt in its brain.....

 

Training and plenty of experience in the field will bring the best out of the dogs ability. Good breeding and good training go hand in hand to create good dogs.

[T78 4]

you can easily feck up what would have been a good dog but you can't make sh*te into a decent dog!

[undisputed 1,664]

Puppies learn a lot from their mothers, how to lap from a dish, how to eat food from a bowl, how to inhibit their bite and basic manners, how to react around humans if the dam is fearful etc the pups will copy her, how you can say they dont learn from her I dont know

 

 

I'm sure I saw one with a blackboard out once drawing diagrams of where to grab quarry.....my point was about hunting not table manners....what does a pup of 6 - 8 weeks know about hunting?.....or do you enter them early in Larkhall????

[foxfan 479]

If the original question was about the GREAT dogs, then they are definately BORN not made. imho

[undisputed 1,664]

you can easily feck up what would have been a good dog but you can't make sh*te into a decent dog!

 

Good point....maybe there's a lot of shite owners!

[undisputed 1,664]

If the original question was about the GREAT dogs, then they are definately BORN not made. imho

 

So is it down to luck then???

[Guest rodsmith]

If the original question was about the GREAT dogs, then they are definately BORN not made. imho

 

So is it down to luck then???

 

 

50/50.get a pup from proper working strain and your 1/2 way there.the rest is up to the owner on how they bring the pup on.

thats my personal view.

[Guest SJM]

Its a waste of time replying if someone has it firmly set in their minds that it doesnt matter if a dog is bred off rubbish stock and poorly socialised in its formative weeks, but Im hoping if I can post without sounding rude the message might sink in thats why I edited my previous post. MOO has summed up my feelings on this matter very well a few times when he has posted, but of course every time he does you and a couple of others come on and it has an argumentative feel to it, thats why I have refrained from posting on any of undisputeds previous threads where hes stated that it doesnt matter if a pups bred off parents that dont work and stuff like that.

 

It DOES matter, very much so indeed. A lot of traits a dog will possess in the working field are inherited from its parents, grandparents etc and when you breed a line of dogs you see this start to appear in pups that have been bred down from certain dogs. I have a young pup here who is starting to hunt and I know her grandmother and great grandmother on both sides I saw them work too hundreds of times over the years, now this wee pup has just been coming out with me and Ive been watching her as she learns to use her nose and every time I see her progressing I can see her grandmothers traits through and through, certain ways she does things and mannerisms. No other dogs have shown her these things she is not learning them from watching another dog they are inbuilt into her. Yes experience and good feeding and putting lots of game in front of her will bring the best in her, but if she wasnt bred from good dogs to start with I would be literally "polishing a turd" as the saying goes.

 

Now I have nothing against undisputed thats why I edited my original post cos I thought upon reading it back it might sound rude? but he really does need to learn a bit about dog behaviour and genetics, correct breeding and early socialisation are vital in order to get the best working dog you can. If you just want a pet or a dog to knock around with and get a few bunnies then yeah I agree most dogs will fit the bill, but to say a dog doesnt learn anything from its dam or get anything from its ancestors is totally incorrect.

 

Whats your interest in this topic? thats twice now youve made snidey comments to me for no reason if you have a problem take it to pm and let the discussion stay as a discussion and not turn into an argument

[Guest SJM]

I'm sure I saw one with a blackboard out once drawing diagrams of where to grab quarry.....my point was about hunting not table manners....what does a pup of 6 - 8 weeks know about hunting?.....or do you enter them early in Larkhall????

 

Theres no need for sarcasm, and I dont come from Larkhall I enter my pups around 8 months to an odd rabbit here and there trying to make it as easy as possible for them, around 10-12 months I will start lamping them a night or two a week or giving them a few runs during the day, but if they havent got what it takes all the conditioning/feeding/working alongside other dogs etc in the world wont change that fact. JMHO

[Guest MickyB]

. Most pups leave their dam at around 6 - 8 weeks so wont pick up anything from her......I think a dog will learn more from working beside a seasoned campaigner than any trait inherited from the parents.

I strongly disagree with this point, as ive known dogs/bitches that show some of the exact same traits as their parents, ones which can not have been tought from the parents. Ive got a terrier bitch she never met her sire (rip Jack) who died at work, yet she has some of the same traits, such as a strange woof... ''bow-wow-wow'' almost like a dog fox!! Also he used to charge into an occupied earth and the first sounds of him finding his quarry was a blood curdling scream.... she is the same, though she will then bay, unlike her father!

 

I dont train my terriers as such, im simply a guide.... I have no influence over my young terriers, if they dont want to work, they wont, and il say my goodbyes, no ammount of training or prior conditioning will MAKE them work. As for the lurchers and all other working dogs, the same principles apply.

 

A good working dog man will not take praise himself for his dogs, the praise goes to the dogs ancestors, each of whom is in the dog in some small way.

[snoopdog 1,256]

simple answer....no fancy words ....the dog has to have it in the first place ...then its up to the owner to fetch what the dog was born with..out....theres many of good dogs fooked by bad owners...alot of people slag certain lines ....because what they have seen of them where shite.....is it the dogs fault or the owner of the dog..???theres a saying you cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear....but a good man or woman could still make a tidy looking bag......get my drift......or am i talking shit again..... ...

 

 

 

ITS IN THE BLOOD .....

 

 

 

[Running 7]

if it is not there in the first place you can never bring it out imo