is this true?

[Malt 379]

Here's something else to consider.

 

It's now thought to be a myth that 'invasions' like the Anglo-Saxons, the Danes, Normans etc replaced or drove out the indiginous population.

They didn't, well not for most of the population....the bigwig landowners might have left/been killed/been replaced, but most people stayed where they were. They simply had different rulers - same old shit.

 

So the Welsh are not neccessarily the remnants of the pure-bred Celt, any more than the English are.

 

What changed in the invasions was the culture/governance/technology, not the people.

 

Maxhardcore is totally right.

 

That's the operative word mate, culture. It's what defines us as a race. Otherwise we're all made of the same stuff.

[Guest johnD]

Officially Britain has only been conquered once by William the Conquerer.The history of the Normans reveals that they where not to distant causins from the saxons anyhow.Contrry to popular history the romans did nt conquer Britain but where accepted by the inhabitants as they had a lot to offer both intellectually and financially.The Gaelic lanquages [welsh,Irish etc]have an amazing similarity to ancient hebrew.

After the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel very few returned to the land of Israel and a massve number migrated north and west[approx 600bc]and moved throughout Europe eventually inhabiting Ireland Wales Scotland and Southern England many settling in Denmark Norway etc.These inhabitants of the isles most likely used the Phenician trade routes to the tin mines of southern England.[incidently clotted cream is traditional in only 2 places Lebanon and Devon and Cornwall,Lebanon being Pheonicia]The Druids of all have recieved bad press,originating with the writings of Ceasar.These original Druids had a religion very close to the law of Moses.No authentic evedence links the Druids to human sacrifice.These migrating multitudes which came to our islands became known as cimmeri or deriviations of the term,closely resembling CYMRU sp,a common name for the Welsh to this day.

Many other evidences link our ancesters to a migrating multitude which disappeared from the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris but one to consider is the term SAXON,ISAC-SON or SONS OF ISAAC.The Angles where another group which appeared in Europe descended from the same multitude escaping Assyrian captivity.

Up until recently the ancestry of the Royal house of England was documented for all to see in Buckingham palace tracing the present monarchy back to the house of Judah.

All in all the various tribes of Ireland,Wales,Scotland,England where far from uneducated savages but possessed a common heritage a close language and where very intelligent.

Of course this is nt what we ve all been taught.

[droid 11]

I think we're forgetting the Danes in that cut and paste.

 

And the Normans were originally Vikings....'Nor(se)man'

 

As for the Romans, I was under the impression that if you sailed to a country, slaughtered anyone who opposed you and established military control over it, you had invaded/conquered it.

I stand corrected.

[nighttimenellie 4]

Have been told in the past that where i live now Cumbria, is derived from the welsh language as in Cymbra (please excuse spelling) dont know how true that is but it sounds about right.

Isnt the word England named after the Angols? as in angolland a germanic tribe? it would explain the queens heritage lol.

[Guest johnD]

I think we're forgetting the Danes in that cut and paste.

 

And the Normans were originally Vikings....'Nor(se)man'

 

As for the Romans, I was under the impression that if you sailed to a country, slaughtered anyone who opposed you and established military control over it, you had invaded/conquered it.

I stand corrected.

Im not saying that all the above is 100% but its what i ve studied not a cut and paste.The Danes where a settled group of the tribe of DAN,who where prone to leave there name on certain settlements and rivers etc [Danube etc etc]and ultimately Denmark.The Romans certainly did live up to there reputation and exterminated non complients.The Welsh and the Scots however where ,in the words of Ceasers writing unconquerable due to their nature and the landscape.

The mineral wealth in Britain was the main aim for the Romans interest in the country and the peoples respect for Druids was the reason behind the Romans persecution of them.The historian Josephus records a vast multitude which could not be numbered decended through the caucasus mountains.Hence the racial identity of the Anglo saxon peoples [caucasion].This happened between 600bc to approx 200bc the term viking and Norsemen where of the same tribe and had largely lost thier original identity and conection with the people in the settled tribes in the isles of Britain and Ireland. Cumbria as Cymru are also derivitives of the cimmerians as these mass of peoples became known by Assyrians Greeks etc.The Gaelic peoples also being close relatives of these migrants. ??????????????The Angoland tribe was also close relatives of the cimmerians and eventually moved towards the isles of the west[britain]while migrating through Germany and Europe.I think the Angles where also a member of the confederacy which sacked Rome along with the Vandels etc. ???????????????????????????????????

[Foxgun Tom 75]

johnD says " Officially Britain has only been conquered once by William the Conquerer.?" William the Conquerer invaded England in 1066 and defeated King Harold at Hastings, he did not repeat not! conquer Britain? Scotland was a sovereign nation at the time and was'nt part of Williams plans Thats why we dont have a large Norman influence in Scotland despite having other links with France eg: "The Auld Alliance" Scottish and other parts of the UK's history were not always shared!! you have the Magna Carta we have "The Declaration of Arbroath" which is reputedley what the American Constitution and Bill of Rights is based on There is no way on Gods green earth that William the Conqueror invaded or conquered Britain/Scotland, Britain was'nt even a concept then, that happened later Why! try to rewrite history John? below is a brief history of the historical languages of Scotland and some of the new ones!

 

At present there are three languages native to modern Scotland eg: Broad Scots, Gaelic, and Doric

 

There was a language similar to Welsh was spoken in southern Scotland but its not Welsh its only related through a family group of Celtic languages!!

 

Brithonic, a (Celtic) language spoken in south west Scotland (the ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde whose capital was Dumbarton) is related to modern-day Welsh. It was spoken until about the eighth century.

 

Pictish, an ancient, indigenous (probably Celtic) language of Scotland, about which very little is known. It died out after the ninth century and survives only in some placenames, such as the prefix 'Pit', e.g. Pittenweem.

 

Gaelic (older generations of my family are Gaels), brought to Scotland by a tribe from Ireland called the Scoti. At first they settled in the west, but by the ninth century Gaelic was the dominant language and culture in Scotland. Most Scottish placenames are Gaelic in origin.

 

Old English, a Germanic language which in its northern dialect first came to Scotland in the seventh century. Both Standard English and Scots are descended from Old English.

 

Norse, the language of the Vikings, who began as raiders in the seventh and eighth centuries and ended up as settlers. The Norse language influenced the English language when it came into contact with it. This is still evident in placenames and local dialect in northern England, and also in Scots. The influence of Norse is particularly apparent in the dialect of Shetlands and Orkney.

 

Standard (southern) English became increasingly widespread in Scotland during the eighteenth century as the language of government, law, the church and education. Scottish writers such as the philospher David Hume went to great lengths to write and speak in Standard English but! he was a twat with no passion for Scots history or home grown culture.

 

Modern languages brought to Scotland by twentieth century immigration - including Italian, Polish and Lithuanian in the first half of the twentieth century, Punjabi, Urdu and Chinese in the last 40 years. As both Scottish society and the world change, new languages will continue to be added to the linguistic map of Scotland.

 

to the threads question the answer has to be a resounding No!! Welsh was not spoken throughout Britain In answer to the post , especially in the north and Central Scotland only a language closely related to it? was used in Southern parts of Scotland

 

Scots Gaelic is not recognised by the UK Government even here in Scotland in the present day, The Scots Government recognise it but south of the border does'nt and it was even banned to converse in it a couple of hundred years ago!!!!!!!

 

Tom

Edited May 16, 2009 by Foxgun Tom

[brookie 1,193]

in cardiff museum theres a book written by aneurin in the sixth century and the contents clearly state the welsh language was spoken widespread over the country names like edinburgh and carlisle are welsh names the language ended up confined to whats known as wales because we were the only people (the celts ) that the normans and vikings could not conquer and ps we want herefordshire back ive taken all the rabbits and hares back but we want the land back as well now

[Foxgun Tom 75]

The Normans and William the Conquerer did'nt invade or conquer Scotland ( thats a historical fact) French and Norman nobility married into the Scottish royal families but we!! were never conquered by the Normans and Scots Gaelic goes back a lot further than the sixth century it? became dominant in the ninth!! I would define Edinburgh as being in the lowlands and in the south of Scotland as I stated earlier a Brithonic language similar to Welsh was prevelant at a certain time in southern Scotland that would be why and how Edinburgh got its name? but Welsh or similar as a language, was not prevelent over the whole of Scotland therefore it follows that it can't have been in used throughout Britain as the thread asks!!!

 

 

 

Tom

Edited May 16, 2009 by Foxgun Tom

[NID 0]

Tom's on the warpath now :clapper:

[brookie 1,193]

what cant talk cant lie its in black and white for all to see at cardiff museum but i suppose saint aneurin got it wrong in the sixth century

[Foxgun Tom 75]

I never said the guy lied (St Aneurin) I'm suggesting he's looking at it from a sixth century cleric's perspective with religeous zeal and conviction of the time?, He probably believed that God created the Earth in six days and rested on the seventh, Rome was the centre of the universe, Eve was moulded from clay given Adam's rib in a transplant with, God giving here the breath of life and that dragons and unicorns existed, I've also read Lord of the Rings but my education and the geography lessons I had at school, tell me theres no such place as Middle Earth and that race of small people with big hairy feet (Hobbits) don't exist

 

Tom

 

 

 

what cant talk cant lie its in black and white for all to see at cardiff museum but i suppose saint aneurin got it wrong in the sixth century

Edited May 17, 2009 by Foxgun Tom

[macberran 2]

There's a wall somewhere in here and the declaration off indipendance.....and a wee bit of influence(not in Argentina ) worldwide that the Scots can haud their chins uptae.

[undisputed 1,664]

I never said the guy lied (St Aneurin) I'm suggesting he's looking at it from a sixth century cleric's perspective with religeous zeal and conviction of the time?, He probably believed that God created the Earth in six days and rested on the seventh, Rome was the centre of the universe, Eve was moulded from clay given Adam's rib in a transplant with, God giving here the breath of life and that dragons and unicorns existed, I've also read Lord of the Rings but my education and the geography lessons I had at school, tell me theres no such place as Middle Earth and that race of small people with big hairy feet (Hobbits) don't exist

 

Tom

 

 

 

what cant talk cant lie its in black and white for all to see at cardiff museum but i suppose saint aneurin got it wrong in the sixth century

 

 

There's a lot of Orc's and Goblin's in Larkhall.....it might not be middle earth but it certainly is the land that time forgot

[Catcher 1 639]

Yes, it's true. Modern Welsh is what's left of the ancient Brythonic language that was spoken all over Great Britain. Outside of Wales, the last remaining pockets of it existed in Merseyside, Cornwall and the north east of Scotland.

 

Ever wondered about the name Aberdeen? Aber is a Welsh word.

 

William Wallace was reputed to be of Welsh stock....theres still evidence of Welsh influences in Scottish culture....such as the Bhoy's and the phrase "I'm going for a leek" came from a saying when everyone ate them but could only get them from the market. Other more sinister Welsh practices involving sheep seem to be more prevelent in the Scotish borders and the North of England.....although there is a tribe of SS's in Aberdeen

 

The surname Wallace means Welshman.

 

oliver cromwell was the man

 

Someone needs a history lesson!

didnt oliver cromwell batter william wallace

 

 

Your about 350 years out mate.Catcher 1

[Foxgun Tom 75]

It is reputed in some circles the Sir William Wallace was decended from an individual known as "Richard the Welshman"! Wallace himself was in fact born a Scot!! He first saw the light of day in the village of Elderslie and was educated at Paisley Abbey by Cluniastic monks. William Wallace is known in history as the Knight of Ellerslie or Elderslie. Both these names are one and the same - both mean the field of the Elder trees, and Elderslie of course stands close to Paisley in Renfrewshire. At the Elderslie, two famous trees once stood, the Wallace oak, and the Wallace Yew. The yew alone remains. Some doubt has recently been cast on the antiquity of this tree, but parish records from the 1700's refer to it as "this ancient tree".

The remains of Wallace's house and a monument exist in Elderslie today and its less than three miles from my home!!

 

The Wallaces were vassals of the High Stewards of Scotland.

 

The town of Renfrew today is known as "The Cradle of the Stewarts". In fact all the High Stewards of Scotland are buried in Paisley Abbey. This family came north from Shropshire on the Welsh Marches in the time of David I of Scotland.

 

The original form of Wallace meant "Welsh Speaking", and we know that William's ancestors followed these "Stewards" north as their vassals. In 1174 Richard Wallace, William's ancestor, witnessed a charter to the Abbey of Paisley. The Wallaces were granted the lands of Elderslie sometime before 1250.

 

To all the Taffs and Boyo's!! this is another cultural celtic link from our shared roots as a proud Jock its nice to see we share many things

 

Tom

 

Ps: its funny the surname Wallace is more common in Scotland than Wales where its supposed to be derived from? check this link and see where your own surname comes from and how common it is!!

 

http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx

Edited May 17, 2009 by Foxgun Tom