Retrieving advice please

[welshboy454 3]

Hi - my dog is 6 years old and I have been giving him a refresher course in retrieving as he stopped delivering to hand.

I went back to the enclosed passage training then moving on to throwing the dummy in the field but standing in the gateway to intercept him and it has been going fine.

The problem I have identified with him is I think called prey possessive. He wants to retain the dummy.

I have got him to the stage where he trusts me to give it to me in my hand as long as I give it back to him to carry.

I need to wean him off this somehow - any ideas/advice gratefully received.

 

To give you an idea of what he was like last year when I was playing with him one day he retrieved the dummy ok twice but on the third blind retrieve he ran away with the dummy around the buildings in a 3/4 circle to deposit it in his kennel out of sight of me and then ran back as fast as he could the same way to get his treat. After that he was not delivering to hand so I hid the dummy for a couple of months and I started again from scratch a couple of weeks ago.

[welshboy454 3]

A bit of a breakthrough -not with the dog but with me understanding what has been going on ! he sees me as competition.

What I have been now doing is getting him to do a retrieve and deliver it to me in the glasshouse where I have a chair(don't ask but it is lazy days stuff) and then spend some quality time with him beside me and I scratch/smooth his head. He loves it. So I hold the dummy right next to his mouth and as soon as he grabs it I stop smoothing/scratching-he will give it back straight away to get the reward of the scratch/smooth.

This seems to be working but it is more a case of me doing now something I should have done at the beginning- it was my fault and the dog deserved better.I believe if a good trainer had got him as a pup he would have been some dog.

Any advice gratefully received.

Edited May 14, 2009 by welshboy454

[GSPDave 0]

You say in your post that you use treats, that can cause a dog to drop the dummy as they get to you as they want the treat. But you seem to be making headway, if my dog delivers to hand he gets lots of praise, if he doesn't I dont say anything to him I just put the dummy back in the bag and walk off with him at heel. Try sitting him and let him hold it for a couple of mins then use dead (or what ever you say to him to give it up) then a bit of praise and give it back to him, if he thinks he is going to get it back he wont mind giving it up. I guess it is a Lab?

[welshboy454 3]

You say in your post that you use treats, that can cause a dog to drop the dummy as they get to you as they want the treat. But you seem to be making headway, if my dog delivers to hand he gets lots of praise, if he doesn't I dont say anything to him I just put the dummy back in the bag and walk off with him at heel. Try sitting him and let him hold it for a couple of mins then use dead (or what ever you say to him to give it up) then a bit of praise and give it back to him, if he thinks he is going to get it back he wont mind giving it up. I guess it is a Lab?

Thank you for your comments and suggestions- gratefully received. You are right about the treats problem of dropping the dummy in anticipation of the reward.He does react like that if he knows treats are available- somehow he must smell them I think.

I cannot use the sit command as immediately he drops the dummy and sits.

What I do now is to allow him to bring it to me fairly close then turn away and start walking and give the heel command to get him under control and then stop and get him to deliver to hand. I hope to progressively shorten this control period.

As background I got him aged 3 (ESS) he was effectively a rescue living in the boot of a car trained as a guard,had never hunted or been taken shooting. He was such a natural that I neglected the basics thinking wrongfully that he was a natural retriever not noticing the prey possessive nature which got stronger over the last 3 years.

I think I will get him to return to hand ok on the dummy but how he will behave on real retrieves I don't know.

Anyway it's fun trying to outwit him.

[skycat 6,174]

Hats off to you! Not many people would bother getting inside a dog's head like you are doing: I'm sure you'll get round hiim eventually, and by the sounds of it you are going the right way: putting the dog in a situation where he has to make the right decisions to get praise is just how it should be done: like stopping stroking him to get him to give the dummy.

 

Thinking laterally like that reaps huge benefits in the long term: much better than all that forced training that some people advocate.

[steviebhoy 0]

You say in your post that you use treats, that can cause a dog to drop the dummy as they get to you as they want the treat. But you seem to be making headway, if my dog delivers to hand he gets lots of praise, if he doesn't I dont say anything to him I just put the dummy back in the bag and walk off with him at heel. Try sitting him and let him hold it for a couple of mins then use dead (or what ever you say to him to give it up) then a bit of praise and give it back to him, if he thinks he is going to get it back he wont mind giving it up. I guess it is a Lab?

You guess wrong.............Could have been worse, could have been a GSP

[Tiny 7 1,694]

Any addvice on this one,

My dog has always retrieved, But just lately he has stopped bring them right to hand. He will bring them back to me no matter how far away he catch's anything over fence's,stream's,ditch's until he gets about 15 20 ft away then he turns off if i walk towards him he will walk abit forther away if i walk away he will walk behind me (but iv got to stop some time) but then he will walk away,

I wouldnt mind so much if he just killed his rabbit but he is as soft mouth as you can get(iv never knowing this dog to kill a rabbit in his mouth in his life thats how soft im talking)

Iv tryed down as in lie down but he thinks i mean drop the rabbit that jumps up and run's away again,

Iv tryed hold it but as soon as i try and get close he slopes off,

Iv tryed SHOUTING at him just dont work full stop,

Tryed on one knee giving his tons of praise but he wont come within 10 ft,

Iv walked away and let him carry it for as long as i can,

So if anyone can maybe point me in another direction to try it would be greatly appreciate,

T 7

(all ya he wont retrieve ANYTHING apart from what he catches no stick,stone,bottle,dummy,ball,

Trust me iv tried everything)

[welshboy454 3]

Any addvice on this one,

My dog has always retrieved, But just lately he has stopped bring them right to hand. He will bring them back to me no matter how far away he catch's anything over fence's,stream's,ditch's until he gets about 15 20 ft away then he turns off if i walk towards him he will walk abit forther away if i walk away he will walk behind me (but iv got to stop some time) but then he will walk away,

I wouldnt mind so much if he just killed his rabbit but he is as soft mouth as you can get(iv never knowing this dog to kill a rabbit in his mouth in his life thats how soft im talking)

Iv tryed down as in lie down but he thinks i mean drop the rabbit that jumps up and run's away again,

Iv tryed hold it but as soon as i try and get close he slopes off,

Iv tryed SHOUTING at him just dont work full stop,

Tryed on one knee giving his tons of praise but he wont come within 10 ft,

Iv walked away and let him carry it for as long as i can,

So if anyone can maybe point me in another direction to try it would be greatly appreciate,

T 7

(all ya he wont retrieve ANYTHING apart from what he catches no stick,stone,bottle,dummy,ball,

Trust me iv tried everything)

Hi I have sent you a private message with my thoughts but as I have been asking for help myself and feeling my way in the dark on this I am not confident enough to post it on the forum. But if it works you can ! ATB

[GSPDave 0]

You guess wrong.............Could have been worse, could have been a GSP

 

 

Oi, now theres no need for that.......No thinking about it your right

[welshboy454 3]

Just an update

I have got to the stage where he is happy to retrieve (in the middle of a field ) right in to me and to allow me to put his lead on while he holds the dummy. He then gives it to me after I have walked him for a few yards but for the moment I give it back to him to carry home as he seems to enjoy it so much.

Please tell me if you think I am building up problems for myself.

 

Tiny 7 How are you getting on ?