I'm using 8" bands from tie and drawing to 38" iirc, might be further, past my ear and just as my shoulder starts. They do go, dont get me wrong, I started using them for when I started hunting not to long ago and hit a feral pigeon 3 times under a bridge thats probably 4-5 yards high for there to be a puff of feathers and it still sit there, hit it with an m10 once and it dropped with a hole in its crop. Also taken squirrels with m10's no problem. Wonder if the 11mm will be better, travel slightly faster?