Thanks snap, iv given up on land permission iv joined a clay pigeon club near by. I'm going with a shot gun to start does anyone know any websites or books I could read on what amo for what, general use, maintenance etc. I usually go out working cover with terriers and running dogs, so would a shot gun just disintegrate rabbits and birds or what shells would I need for them. I would use the meat for the dogs if it's salvageable, thanks for any advice. If I need to I'll start a new link for help on this, go maith.