Thanks lads for the replies. Interesting. And Hot Meat, I guess these guys were natural fighters. I read somewhere, and this could be utter bullshyte, that Roy Shaw used to fight Rottweilers. a book I had once he said he put his fist down one dogs throat and pulled his lungs out could be just words to sell a book but he sounded serious at the time. (That's it it, I remember now, he told the story on the old Talk Radio before it was called Talk Sport)