thanks everyone, got these 2 jills last year from a rescue home and are excellent workers so dont want to part with them, ive got another 4 ferrets, one thats 7 and still an excellent worker with no problems,1 that doesnt work at all and 2 last years which i just started last week and are off to a good start going to try the tube trick in summer i think and leave them for the rest of this season