The 'trained retrieve',..for a running dog composite,.requires a different approach, with regards to achieving success, than when schooling a bird dog...
Personaly,...I would eschew the usage of any persuasive training and instead,..concentrate on that most important and necessary attribute,...the recall...
Get that right,.and you will have your fetch....feck up on the training table,.. and you'll have feck all...
Just an opinion,.and I could well be wrong..
All the best, Phil.
Spot on always said it recall and retrieve come hand in hand . I have never owned a dog that wouldn