cheers chaps, gonna keep plugging away, he's a smart dog so hopeing its gonna all come good, maybe in a couple of days he might be more willing, he may have been a little hyped up after the ferreting, cant fault him with regard to the ferreting, very obedient etc, strange how the time has passed, cant quite bellieve he's 14 months, should have had this sorted months ago, thanks to this forum n all you lads on here i am further ahead than i would have been without the advise, here's hopeing he will be retrieveing grand soon.. Thanks chaps, Dan