i know what you mean wolly (credit crunch) but we not talking small fortunes might leave her have them and then get her neuterd was thinking about getting rid of the dog (jrt) that had her, later in the year ive got three bitches and he dominates them way to much to the point where they turn round and give him a hideing lol and she do chuck a nice pup. and she should throw just 3 or 4 not like my bullx which had 11 cant go through that again....cheers lads for the advice...elmafud