well Cam, you had a rant and to be honest I'm sure a lot of people agree, anyway I don't want to spoil what is a genuine question the lad is asking, and hes asking for help, he didn't say don't mention collars right. next, THEY WONT BE BANNED,, also its not severe pain you've obviously never used or had one, a correction can be done by a beep or a vibration, Next how many dogs to you think have either been put down or handed around because a problem like this cannot be cured thousands, now here's the point the collar works 100% where sometimes tried and tested methods haven't, keep up with the