neither are or have been any of mine close to trialling dogs just plain simple gun dogs or stalking dogs , used to do a job efficiently and effectively,imho the dog, given the chance will let you know when its ready to learn the next lesson ,providing its given the opportunity ! nearly all my dogs bar the terriers had that handler/dog bond where we both knew what was wanted and when, without any shouting or thundering whistles and this is i think, down to what your saying about training a dog yourself and spending unrushed time with them .horses for courses i suppose but im firmly of the opin