cheers lads,dont know what happened with the pair that have 2 young,there was3 until they featherd up,then on inspection one morning 1 had died for no apparent reason,looked same size/weight,i checked birds and pans for mite,no sign thankfully,and all the rest are doing fine,i also have some more sitting not on these pics and there eggs are full,so the birds are in decent condition,atb.